Seanad debates

Wednesday, 6 November 2013

Social Welfare and Pensions Bill 2013: Committee Stage

 

4:05 pm

Photo of Brian Ó DomhnaillBrian Ó Domhnaill (Fianna Fail) | Oireachtas source

We all spoke on this issue yesterday and, to be fair to her, the Minister gave a measured response. The difficulty with universal payments is that very wealthy individuals who may not need it get the payment and other people at the bottom of the economic ladder, who are struggling, get the same payment although they might be meeting the same end cost. That is a difficulty that affects the social welfare system in general, whether it be child benefit or any other universal payments. The difficulty is that removing a universal payment has the same effect as giving one because the persons or families who are least well off are hit disproportionately more than the individual who is well off and can afford to take the hit. That is the difficulty that I see in this section.

The Minister said yesterday that there are alternative benefits, through the office of the community welfare officer, such as the exceptional need once-off payment. The difficulty I experience in dealing daily with that payment is that up to a few years ago that payment was available regularly, in other words, if an individual had an exceptional need they went to the social welfare office and were given a payment to meet the exceptional need. Now it is a once-off payment and one cannot have an exceptional need on a regular basis, such as every six months.

Community welfare officers are implementing that approach based on current Government policy. The Minister might address that issue, which was raised here in the context of that payment being used. No one can argue that a bereavement is not an exceptional need but the argument that a payment from the office of the community welfare officer or an exceptional needs payment is there to meet every ill does not hold up because a community welfare officer, on a practical basis, will tell a client that he or she cannot approve any more than one payment at present because of Government policy.

With regard to the other grants the Minister outlined yesterday, she mentioned that a grant of €6,000 was available. While we are aware of such grants, they are exceptionally difficult to obtain. She might outline the qualifying criteria for them.

The Minister said yesterday that there is a need to examine the cost of funerals. Why was that not examined, by way of a review or otherwise, by her Department in advance of bringing in this universal cut which will affect the least well off more disproportionately than the well off? That is where the difficulty arises with this payment, namely, that it is a universal payment that is being withdrawn. Instead of universally withdrawing the payment, could it not have been dealt with in a manner that would have protected the least well off in society? Could a measure not have been introduced in the budget to withdraw the €850 payment for those who can afford burials but to leave it in place for those who cannot afford them? The argument has been made that the money can be obtained through the other two grants but those two grants would have been available in addition in any event.

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