David Cullinane (Sinn Fein) | Oireachtas source

I commend Senator Cummins on his ordering of this debate. It is important, in the wake of the referendum, that Members of this House reflect on the outcome of the referendum and the messages both sides sent to all of us and the political system itself. Referendum day is the people's day. The people spoke and the people are sovereign. We all regret that the majority of people entitled to vote did not vote, not just on the Seanad referendum but also on the referendum on the establishment of the court of appeal. We saw something similar with the children's referendum, where the turnout was approximately 30%. We must recognise that we have a job to do as a political system to reach out to a section of the population who are disengaged with the political system, who are indifferent, apathetic, angry or whatever.

For those who voted, it was a clear, resounding vote for reform. It would be wrong for anybody in this House to see it as a vote of confidence in us, as individuals or Senators, or in this House as an institution. People want reform, not just of the Seanad but of the entire political system. It was regrettable that the option of reform was not put to the people. While it was not on the ballot paper, people took the option of voting "No" as their way of saying they want reform. The Government should accept that. It might be easy for the Government to say the people voted to retain the Seanad, but the vast majority, if not all, of the people who campaigned for a "No" vote were campaigning on the basis of a radically reformed Seanad. I hope we do not go into the next general election with the Seanad exactly as it is, with a few cosmetic changes but with Senators being elected exactly the same way as they were elected in the past. The people will not forgive us for that, nor will they forgive the political system, because it was genuine vote for reform.

First, we must reform how people are elected to the Seanad. We all accept that this must change. While Senator Norris took exception to the term "elitist", I make no apologies for saying the way we elect Senators is elitist. We elect a number of Senators through university panels on which only a certain portion of people who went to universities have a vote. We do not give the franchise to the vast majority of citizens. Where only 3% of the population can vote for people in one arm of the Parliament, it is clearly elitist and undemocratic, and that must change.

Senators should be elected through universal suffrage. There should be one vote for everybody. If we really want people to have an affinity with the Seanad, the first thing we do is give them the vote. When people can vote for Senators, the whole perception of the Seanad will change. The Press Gallery is empty. The press came in today because it was the first day after the referendum. Will we see them again tomorrow, next week and next month? If every person had a Seanad vote, it would change that attitude and that perception. We should do it because it is the right thing to do. Legislators should be elected by the people.

Another question is what the second Chamber does. In defence of its abolition strategy the Government argued that there are any number of proposals. Senator Crown made proposals.

Senators Quinn and Zappone have made proposals, as have Sinn Féin and Fianna Fáil. I am sure the Labour Party and Fine Gael made proposals prior to the referendum. We have any amount of reports on Seanad reform. There is no end of reports or ideas. We must work out in a very careful and thoughtful way how we will reform the Seanad with regard to its powers. There is scope for examining EU legislation and directives. How many times have we seen directives that have not been properly transposed into Irish law? A recent example, as the Leader would agree, is the insolvency directive, which resulted in Waterford Crystal workers not getting their pensions. Senator Norris is correct in saying that generally EU legislation is very technical and weighty and it would not be possible to go through every piece of it, but there are directives and areas of European policy that the Chamber could quite usefully examine.

It would also be a mistake to reform only the Seanad. We cannot allow the issue of Dáil reform to slip off the agenda, because it needs to be radically reformed. I agree with previous speakers with regard to local government. I hope we will have constructive, thoughtful debate. I appeal to Senators on the Government side to appeal to the Taoiseach to put the issues of political reform and the future of the Seanad and the Dáil to the Constitutional Convention, to extend its remit and to let all of these ideas be properly ventilated, after which it can come back with a proposal which, it is hoped, would add value to our democracy and the workings of the Parliament.