Feargal Quinn (Independent) | Oireachtas source

I thank the Minister of State for his explanation. I did not speak during tonight's debate as it is 1,168 days since the Bill commenced and, as we have spoken a lot about abolition or reform of the Seanad today, I felt that we should not speak any longer on the Bill than needed.

I wish to touch on some of the points that the Minister of State made. He said that the Bill came about due to a small incident. It was not a small incident but quite a substantial scandal whereby somebody who was not short of money had a company that did not pay its subcontractors. This came to the attention of Seán Gallagher, who wrote to a number of people, including his local Deputy, who circulated his letter.

What struck me when I saw the letter was that it did not seem right that somebody who is clearly not short of money was worried about getting a sub-contractor to build his own home. It was because he had let so many of them down. What I then did was run with it. I had the help of Ms Anne Ó Broin, my executive assistant for 27 years, who grasped the issue and explored ways of finding a solution. The British had introduced legislation in 1998, 15 years ago, and we were put in touch with Professor Rudi Klein, the expert who was actively involved in it. He had already spoken with the Construction Industry Federation, CIF, on a number of occasions and he came over and gave us advice. Part of the advice he gave us was that the Bill enacted in Britain had had to be adjusted and some improvements had been made, particularly with regard to certain states of Australia, New Zealand and the Isle of Man. He put us in touch with the relevant people, who were very helpful to us. I always though the grocery business was fairly tough and rough, but what I have learned is that nothing compares to how tough the construction industry is. There was great sympathy around the world for the fact that we did not have legislation, and we were offered support immediately. I contacted the then Minister, the late Brian Lenihan, who demonstrated the same enthusiasm as the Minister of State, Deputy Brian Hayes, who has taken hold of it to make it work. He left it in my hands to bring it through the Seanad. The commitment of the late Brian Lenihan was such that, following the general election in which he was the only Fianna Fáil Member who was re-elected in Dublin, and with a brief 12 hours before the election of the Taoiseach, he helped the Bill get through this House. He was committed to this Bill.

The objective was to have sensible law which would be easy to understand. Senators Norris and Keane expressed concerns that the Bill does not cover everything. The concept, after 1,168 days, was to make it as simple as we could. The Bill became quite involved because we tried to achieve too much in it. We have had some very good debates and different viewpoints have been expressed. Not everything we set out to do has been achieved, including, in particular, ways of dealing with bespoke items - in other words, a thing that has been made especially for a particular job. We would have liked to be able to include provision for bespoke items but we were not able to. As the Minister of State explained, there were other aspects that could not be handled on this basis. Under the law, if I sell a car to a person who does not pay me, I can go and collect the car from him, but if the customer does not pay for tiling or plumbing, those things are embedded in the building and the contractor cannot take them out. We understood that this would make it difficult to deal with it in legislation.

What impressed me no end was the commitment from the Government to deal with the Bill. The Minister of State, Deputy Hayes, grasped the Bill and decided to run with it. I commend the officials who dealt with the Bill, some of whom are not here now, including Nicholas O'Loughlin, who put his heart and soul into it, as did Deirdre Hanlon and Ronan O'Reilly, who is not present. One of the officials who is sitting behind the Minister is David O'Brien, who was very helpful and committed to making the legislation work. I am sure Anne Ó Broin must have given them nightmares on occasion when she phoned them to find out what was happening.

I was able to pick up the phone to Arthur Cox at the beginning and was greatly helped by Patrick McGovern, Niav O'Higgins and Niamh Burke, who put their hearts and souls into getting the Bill off the ground at first. In the Bills Office, Noreen Banim put her heart and soul into the effort as well.

Nothing would have happened if Seán Gallagher had not contacted his local TD, who got in touch with me. People also contacted me when they heard the Bill was being published and offered their help. Tom Parlon, the former Minister, and Don O'Sullivan, who are in the Visitors' Gallery, put great effort into the legislation. Everybody involved in the industry put so much effort into it, including Engineers Ireland, the Royal Institute of the Architects of Ireland, the Society of Chartered Surveyors Ireland, the Chartered Institute of Arbitrators, the Irish Concrete Federation - even though it did not get everything it would have liked out of it, particularly in respect of bespoke goods - and Hardware Association Ireland. What has resulted is a Bill we are all pleased with. People from right round the country have contacted me asking me to include certain provisions. The Minister and his team were very responsive to the suggestions and people were understanding when we could not include them. The Minister of State explained very well the issues of "pay when paid" clauses, bespoke items and the limits involved.

Will the Minister consider the possibility of a commitment from the Government to review the operation of the Act in two years time? It might be possible to do something on that basis. We believe the Bill is as good as we can get, but we could look again in time at dealing with disputes. The number of disputes going to court in Britain have been reduced significantly from approximately 2,500 to some 5% of the total. We have the door open and if a person is unhappy with the legislation he or she can go to court afterwards, but it takes time. The subcontractor will have been paid on that basis.

I believe this House has proved its value here tonight.