Sean Barrett (Independent) | Oireachtas source

I thank the Minister of State for concluding on that note. We sent the material to Brussels last week. I will be joining with him because we need anything that can be done to get the banking sector in the way we both want it. I am glad he appreciated the contribution of this House. That is the spirit in which we came here two years ago. He came in as a reforming Minister of State. We were all here to help and I am afraid this is an issue which has poisoned the atmosphere around here, and I regret that. I look forward to the restoration of the kind of relationships that he described there.

It is a tribute to this House that the Government wants collectively get rid of us and the Title of the Bill contains the words "Abolition of Seanad Éireann". There should be natural tensions. Checks and balances require that. If we were such a teddy bear that nobody in the Cabinet ever noticed us and we were drawing pay and doing nothing, that would be a far more serious situation. These checks and balances are absolutely necessary in my view and that is why I will be arguing the opposite case to the Minister of State when this goes to the public. It is regrettable that we did not have a Green Paper, a White Paper or an impact assessment. Some of the things that have happened in recent days have weakened the reform cause that the Minister of State and I share. I think the inquiries Bill proposed by the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform, which was before this House last Friday, was seriously undermined by the fact that the strong impression given beforehand was that the committees are in some way in the gift of the Government. Deputy Peter Mathews, who knows much about finance, and other Deputies who knew about medicine, as pointed out by Senator Crown, were removed from it. If committees are to replace this House, they must have credibility. We are already in trouble with the Abbeylara judgment, and I suspect that what will happen in committees will damage us and weaken the possibility of reforming banking, which is what we all want to do.

The Minister of State spoke about reforms. Nothing in this Senate prevents the reform of the Dáil. I mentioned last week that the Ceann Comhairle should be chosen by secret ballot. Government Senators should be allowed to put down amendments. They may be required to vote, but it would enhance the debate here. There should be far more freedom from the Whip than has been the case heretofore. The Minister of State has heard people say that they are going to vote "No", but will vote "Yes" today. It is like a problem that we encountered when we were trying to change the economy and there were absolute prohibitions on international trade. We gradually reduced them by 5% and 10%. Could we start with 5% of Whip free days or Bills and gradually increase that freedom?

Senator Crown has proposed that we should make the pledge to Ireland and its Constitution. It is rather strange to see people voting one way because they made a pledge to a political party. The Constitution stands above that. We could go further down the reform route and the Minister of State will not find many obstacles to that reform in here. However, it is rather blunt to abolish the 60 people in here as part of that reform programme. There could be other elements in the reform programme as well.

I have SI 563 of 2012 in front of me, signed by Deputy Simon Coveney and Deputy Michael Noonan, who gave the official seal. It allocated on 12 December 2012 the sum of €841, 771,713 to the horses and dogs sectors, 80% of which went for horses and 20% for dogs. Savings on this House of Parliament might come to €3 million or €4 million and then the Government allocates over €841 million on 12 December by a statutory instrument which is not even discussed here, because that is part of the flaws in our system as Europe and the statutory instruments do not get discussed.

Some of the costings which make up the €20 million figure struck me as bizarre. This is in respect of a statement to The Irish Times that the €20.1 million figure is not exaggerated. We find that each Senator makes €32,000 worth of telephone calls and that the Bills Office cost €47,000 per Senator. Most Senators do not put down any amendments or never run Bills. Those of us who do run Bills, including those that the Minister of State likes, must cost the State an absolute fortune, if we are to judge them by the costings that make up the €20.1 million figure. Indirect costs are allocated at €155,000 per Senator, compared to a €65,000 basic salary. It just seems that there is an attempt to throw everything, including the kitchen sink, on top of us.