Brian Hayes (Dublin South West, Fine Gael) | Oireachtas source

I want to turn to the issue that is the substance of amendment No. 28, on which we started the debate last week and which we have spent eight hours debating. Very few Senators have referred to the substance of the point made by Senator Sean D. Barrett in the amendment, including the Senator himself. The suggestion made by him is that when it gets to the point of establishment of a new Dáil, a further 90 days after the reassembly of the next Dáil, a new Government could decide whether it wished to abolish the Seanad. That is undemocratic and flies in the face of the referendum which I hope will take place. Effectively, the Senator is trying to second guess the will of the people in this matter. As I said, this is an issue for them decide, not the Senator, any group of us, the Executive or any part of it. This is an issue for the people to determine. Therefore, we will not accept the amendment. It would effectively kick off the issue again and second guess the express wish of the people.

As I said during the course of my contribution to the debate, the net issue is whether we require a one House or two House system. That is the issue for debate in the next couple of months, leading up to the referendum in the autumn. It is the task of the Government and those who support us on this proposition to promote the reforms we will make. I accept that there is legitimate scepticism about the scale of these reforms and how they will deliver the kind of political system we need. That is why this debate needs to be about the pre-legislative and the pre and post-enactment stages we propose, which I set out in my Second Stage contribution.

I found the mention of the Constitutional Convention very interesting. I have read in detail the remarks made by Senators on all sides of the House about the convention. The majority of them opposed the establishment of the convention and refused to have a debate in the House on it. They filibustered on that issue, as they have on this. However, everyone is now speaking in defence of the convention. What hypocrisy. The convention was designed by the Government and initiated by both Fine Gael and the Labour Party. It has happened under the Government, yet the allegation is that this is some sort of power grab. What utter rubbish. Look at the record. When this issue was debated in the House, the Tánaiste could not get an opportunity to speak because of the filibustering that occurred on that occasion. That is the record, as against the hypocrisy I have heard in the past three weeks from some Senators. Therefore, the so-called Constitutional Convention-----