Mary Ann O'Brien (Independent) | Oireachtas source

I want to speak on the issue of pain. We have medical evidence from 17 weeks onwards. I cannot for the life of me understand why the Minister will not put this in the legislation. He said earlier in his reply to Senator Healy Eames's first contribution that he did not want to prescribe rules for the obstetrician. This legislation is certainly prescribing what to do for the obstetrician because, if we have a suicidal woman who simply cannot cope and has to have a termination, gosh golly, the obstetrician in Ireland who never had to take a baby's life before in a case in which a woman was suicidal will now have to do so. I think that is prescribing a rule for that particular doctor.

To me, it is a no-brainer amendment. Senator David Norris said earlier he did not like the word "unborn". Neither do I. I like the word "baby". Anybody here who has had a baby in their tummy knows they are babies. We have medical evidence that these babies can feel pain after 17 weeks. We all know what pain is. We know what a headache is like or what it is like to have a needle stuck into us. This is a tiny little baby. All we are asking for is that we legislate to have an anaesthetist present. If we have to do what we have to do, let us do it in as humane a way as possible, and treat these little people with dignity and kindness. Let us stand over being Irish. If we have to put this legislation through, which I believe we do, I appeal to the Minister to hear us on this issue. It is not good enough to leave it to the obstetrician because-----