James Reilly (Dublin North, Fine Gael) | Oireachtas source

The bottom line is that he did not say there were virtually no supports available. He stated that dialectical behavioural therapy was not freely available. He also pointed out during that conversation that this was useful in treating people who are emotionally disturbed with a personality disorder. To suggest that women finding themselves in this group all fall into that category is not something I would accept for a moment.

Notwithstanding the European court case, the Supreme Court has not ruled on this provision as no case has been taken to the Supreme Court. It would require a Supreme Court decision on the constitutionality of the provision and a possible referendum to make that decision. There was ruling in favour of the argument that there may have been a tenable case, but that does not mean the case will succeed. We must be as constitutionally aware and secure in this Bill as possible because it is bound to be challenged and if we are not secure, it will fall. The definition of the unborn in this Bill is only for the purpose of the Bill and, as has been pointed by many others, the inclusion of the rape and incest would require a referendum.

Defining what constitutes an unviable life is extremely fraught. Does it refer to a child who would last only five minutes outside the womb or a child who would last for an hour, 24 hours, a week, two weeks or six weeks? In the other House a figure of 1,500 cases per year was bandied about, but I cannot see how that can be. There are 70,000 births per year and 2% to 3% of babies are born with anomalies, of which a very small percentage are fatal. That should in no way diminish the pain and hurt caused by such a terrible loss. I respect and admire greatly the courage of women from the Termination for Medical Reasons group, and only a person with a heart of stone could not have sympathy with that issue and the terrible plight they face. I cannot address that in this Bill because of the reasons outlined earlier by me and Senators Bacik and Burke.