Fidelma Healy Eames (Fine Gael) | Oireachtas source

If I could continue my point, the reason they said they were happy is because they had a reference point around the birth of the baby. They had those few minutes, hours or years with the baby. They had their family around them. They had a support group. Every year afterwards, they were able to celebrate that life. I am not saying this is my view. That is what they stated, and I have to take that on board.

Senator Mac Conghail makes a very useful point. However, notwithstanding the argument that this would not be constitutional, it is useful that the case of fatal foetal abnormalities is not being approved in this Bill because it is completely different to the suicide case. This is because there is real evidence - the evidence of an abnormality. We have scans and ultrasound technology and we can have second opinions. The whole issue of suicide was nebulous and, while we could assess risk, we could not predict the outcome. For that reason, it is good that this deserves debate today, but proper debate in its own time. As I said, it is the hardest case of all.

Rape is one of the most horrible crimes that could beset a woman or a young girl. It is beastly and it is against the wishes of the woman. I put on record yesterday my own personal story that, today, I am a mother because I have adopted two children. In both of those cases, their birth mothers had to have been faced with a crisis pregnancy where, maybe, they would have considered other options but they did not. During my own counselling for adoption, myself and my husband were asked if we would adopt the child of a rape. My initial reaction was absolute horror and shock, but then we thought about it and we said that is not the child's fault. That was something I considered a long time ago. I have a daughter now. If that terrible crime, and it is a crime, beset her, the question I would have to face is whether I would want a further injury placed on her after her being injured through rape. For me, with the right counselling and the right help, I would hope I would not have to support that. These are really difficult situations.

To go back to the amendments, I genuinely respect that they have been placed but I believe it is useful that our Constitution tells us that there will be another day here. I also thought it was very interesting that Senator Bacik said that where there is proof a baby may live for minutes outside of the womb, that is a different case. This is a set of circumstances that deserves debate and time in and of itself. It is a complex area.