Mary Ann O'Brien (Independent) | Oireachtas source

I thank the Minister of State for attending to listen to us today. I also thank Deputy Jerry Buttimer and the health committee for all of the work put into this Bill.

The Bill has been the subject of much debate during recent months and dominated the political agenda. The abortion issue is one that always causes heated debate, with extreme voices on all sides preventing a mature conversation about the issues involved. Without doubt, the Bill, given its complexities, has been the most difficult for me and my colleagues to prepare for and on which to reach a final position since entering the Oireachtas. Ever since the X case, there has been a need but not a requirement for legislation to clarify the test to be used to determine whether a woman is entitled to a termination of pregnancy. Our constitutional arrangement for the avoidance of any doubt is provided for in Article 40.3 of the Constitution. It states, "The State acknowledges the right to life of the unborn and, with due regard to the equal right to life of the mother, guarantees in its laws to respect, and, as far as practicable, by its laws to defend and vindicate that right".

I am the mother of five children. I lost two of these precious children, one at 38 weeks and one at 18 months. I am well aware that every situation for a pregnant mother is personal to her and her baby. Far be it from me or any of the rest of us to stand in judgment on any woman. However, I find it very difficult to stand by and forget about the rights of an unborn baby because an unborn baby does not have a voice. It does not have the two legs that allow me to stand up here and speak. Having spent many months in a neonatal unit in this city with my own little baby, I marvelled at the extraordinary advances in medicine that could save the lives of tiny babies born from 22 to 27 weeks and allowed them to proceed to lead super lives and make a difference on this planet. In the same breath, I find it difficult to come to terms with what happens on the other side of the coin. I refer to when a baby, for some of the reasons we discussed in the House yesterday and today, receives specialised treatment. Consider the circumstances where the specialised treatment may lead to the baby's life being exterminated. Why does this baby not have the right to receive specialised, extraordinary neonatal treatment instead of heading for extermination? I have pondered over, discussed and wondered about whether one life is worth more than another. Has one baby at 23 or 24 weeks the right to life and the medical advancements of this wonderful world of ours, while another must have its life extinguished?

The overwhelming majority of people believe there is the right to a termination of pregnancy where the life of the mother is in danger if the pregnancy continues and that this danger can be alleviated if the pregnancy is terminated. Every citizen, without doubt, believes in that right for a mother. Today, in every maternity hospital in the country that view informs practitioners' thinking, but that is not what are here to discuss. Let us be clear that any mother whose health is at risk today will be saved if that is the correct approach.

A major concern I have about the Bill pertains to the gestational time limits. Would it be fair to state the lack of a limit in the legislation will put us in the unusual position of not having a limit when compared with the majority of European countries? I examined all of the legislation throughout Europe and really struggled with the fact that there was no time limit in our legislation. I share the view expressed by Deputy Róisín Shortall in the Dáil last week that if the Bill is passed, as it stands, the lack of gestational limits could result in the extraordinary scenario in which a woman may be granted a termination of pregnancy on the grounds of suicidal ideation, while her child may be born unwanted and possibly with multiple disabilities from its early delivery. From experience, the State has a far from perfect record in taking care of children with profound and life-limiting conditions. The Bill, as currently worded, is such that the obstetrician has the unenviable job of deciding whether the life of a baby at 23, 24, 25 or 26 weeks is viable. When will a baby be injected with saline to stop its heart and be delivered and when does a baby have a viable right to life on delivery? I find it extraordinary that there are no limits. In which of the crucial weeks from 22 to 26 weeks does the baby become viable? It is one matter if a baby with no chance of survival needs to be taken from a mother whose life is at risk, but it is another if the viability of the life of another baby is borderline. I really struggle with this and I would like the Minister of State to convey this message to the Minister, Deputy James Reilly. I seek clarification because the State has a record that is far from perfect in taking care of the children in question.

I have not seen any clarification from the Government of what will happen to babies whose lives will not be terminated. The media have reported that such babies could end up in institutions. To my knowledge, there are no institutions in the State with the expertise and funding to look after babies with multiple disabilities, with the exception perhaps of a charity called LauraLynn House which has a few beds in the Children's Sunshine Home in Leopardstown. There was very little discussion during last week's Dáil debate of what would happen to babies who survived. The State must clarify what will happen in such cases and how we will care for these babies. I cannot find any provision in the Bill which details the services or safeguards the Government plans to put in place to protect or support babies born with foetal abnormalities in these circumstances.

I make no apologies for repeating myself on this point. I hope the Minister will indicate the Government's plans and intentions in this regard. Why did it promote the Bill without having a national paediatric budget in place to care for the babies who might be born with multiple disabilities as a consequence of its provisions? I further ask the Minister, given his medical training, to offer his opinion on the precise point during a pregnancy when a baby has a realistic chance of survival and detail the complications that might arise for the baby born as a consequence of the procedure outlined in the Bill? I am essentially seeking to find out when a baby's life becomes viable. There is a huge middle ground on this issue, one which is generally ignored in the effort to make the correct decisions. We need to have a full and frank discussion on abortion in the case of fatal foetal abnormalities, suicide, rape and incest, the supports we need to put in place for families facing these situations and whether, in fact, abortion should be a legally permissible solution.

Section 9 is really the crux of the Bill for many, dealing as it does with less clear-cut cases of a threat to the life of the mother. It is something which concerns me greatly. This provision deals with cases where a woman is suicidal and that suicidal intent is deemed to be a risk to her life. The assumption underlying the provision is that it is her pregnancy which is causing her to have suicidal thoughts. Having observed the debate closely, it is clear to me that the vast majority of legal professionals, on all sides of the debate, are in agreement that abortion is not a treatment for suicidal ideation. The statement issued recently by 113 consultant psychiatrists included the following clearly stated concern:

As practising Psychiatrists we are deeply concerned at the Government's stated plans to legislate along the lines of the X-case, as this will mean legislating for suicidality. We believe that legislation that includes a proposal that an abortion should from part of the treatment for suicidal ideation has no basis in the medical evidence available.

I have put the question to myself of how many women I have met who are pleased with their decision to have an abortion. I have friends who were suicidal and went to Britain. We all have a problem with that situation. I personally was suicidal for a different reason. I had a baby with fatal foetal abnormalities and, when he was six months old, I was suicidal because I felt I could not take care of him. Thankfully, I was treated by a psychiatrist and put back on an even plateau and saw that baby's life through to 18 months. They were probably the best 18 months of my life and I will treasure them forever. As I am being a little personal, I will rest my case. I look forward to the remainder of the debate.