Aideen Hayden (Labour) | Oireachtas source

I welcome the Minister to the House for what is an important debate. Like every other Member of this House, I am well aware of the responsibility on me, as a legislator, to think long and hard on matters of deep concern to the Irish people. This Bill concerns a very sensitive matter, as Senator Labhrás Ó Murchú pointed out, namely, the termination of a pregnancy. Like other Members, I have been canvassed by those who oppose the Bill and by those who favour it and I would say to Senator Ó Murchú that much of the correspondence has been measured but a lot of it has not been and some of it has been downright abusive.

In addition to listening to the views of those who have canvassed us, I was fortunate enough to attend the hearings of the Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health and Children and was privileged to hear the views of the various professionals working in the fields of obstetrics, gynaecology, psychiatry and medical ethics. Having listened to all of those views, I believe the crux of the matter before us is not the liberalisation of abortion law in Ireland but the protection of a pregnant woman's life and we need to stick to the point.

I was quite interested in Senator David Norris's illustration of the different positions which have been taken by the churches over the years. He is correct that at one point in time, it was said the soul did not enter the body until a particular point in the gestation but, ironically, the soul entered the male body earlier than the female body. Female children did not acquire souls until after they were born.

I do not have to go back as far as 1916 as I was brought to see "The Shoes of the Fisherman" for my confirmation - a gruesome occasion - in which a Pope Francis-type, a plain man, walking the streets of Rome was thrust into greatness as pope. He had one sister who was giving birth and, as pope, he was forced to choose between saving the life of the mother or the child. As pope, he was consulted on this and he determined in great angst, of course, because it was cinema, that he must save the life of the child because it has not yet been baptised. He chooses the life of the unborn child over the life of his own sister. As an impressionable 12 year old, it left an indelible mark on me and, dare I say as a practising Catholic, a deep suspicion sometimes of the church's teaching in regard to the equal rights of women.

To get back to the topic, 70,000 women give birth every year in Ireland and, fortunately, for the vast majority of them, it is a good experience with a healthy outcome for both the mother and the child. However, as we are aware and as has been made abundantly clear, there has been a lacuna in the law for many years. The position of a pregnant woman who experiences a risk to her life is not certain. It is a matter of grave concern not only to the woman but to her partner, mother, father, sisters, brothers, friends and to a great many people. Evidence of that concern was very clear around the Savita Halappanavar case. If there was that level of certainty in Ireland about the treatment of a pregnant woman, we would not have seen the national outcry we saw over the Savita Halappanavar case.

There should never be a doubt in regard to a pregnant woman and she should receive every assistance to protect her life, including the termination of her pregnancy. Indeed, I would go further and say that if there is a significant threat to her health, it should be treated in the same manner. However, I accept that is not the matter before us and we are not dealing with that.

This Bill puts it beyond doubt that the medical profession is empowered to do what is necessary to protect a pregnant woman's life in the event of a serious threat. It gives certainty to those treating a pregnant woman that the law will protect them if they act in the best interests of a woman. It was clear during the committee hearings that the medical professionals sought that clarity.

We all know, as Ireland is a small country, that some hospitals are preferred by women over others because they believe their lives will be protected to a greater extent in those hospitals. I am well aware, as are other women, of the fact that some women have instructed their husbands, if they are being taken by ambulance, to bypass particular hospitals. That is the reality but this should not be the case. All women should know that, irrespective of where they live, their lives are just as important and will be protected. The days when a woman was considered as a mere vessel should be well behind us and this legislation will go a long way to making that so.

I was very struck during the committee hearings by the views expressed by many members of medical profession that there should be no difference between the threat to the life of a pregnant woman arising from medical reasons or from mental health reasons. It is very clear that the Irish people increasingly recognise the seriousness of mental health difficulties and the increasing rise in the number committing suicide as a result. We should remember that it is 21 years since the Supreme Court decision in the X case, which recognised that the threat of suicide was a threat to a pregnant girl's life. No matter how much those who would like to pretend that was not the decision and who would prefer it did not stand, it still stands. I, for one, have confidence in the psychiatric profession to put the best interests of their clients first and to consider all available outcomes for their clients, as they are required to do under the proposed legislation. Whether termination is ever a solution is not a matter for this House but for those charged with protecting the life of the pregnant woman or, indeed, a pregnant child.

I believe pregnancy can lead to suicide. It is not that long ago since this House discussed reports setting out child abuse in this country, including abuse within families - rape and incest - abuse within institutions and abuse within the church. It is not a proud record. I have no doubt that many of those who were abused and who subsequently became pregnant may well have ended their lives. In 1983, we passed the constitutional amendment prohibiting abortion but in 1984, a 15 year old girl, Ann Lovett, died giving birth underneath a grotto. Can we doubt that there were pregnant abused children in this country who chose to jump into a river or take some other way out? I have no doubt that has happened.

I am aware there are concerns regarding the time limits on termination in the case of suicidal intention but I, like Senator Ivana Bacik, was reassured by experts, such as Dr. Rhona Mahony, master of National Maternity Hospital, regarding medical practice in these situations. It is set out very clearly in the legislation that the life of the unborn child must be protected. It is also clear that the right of a woman to have her life protected is not time limited in respect of either a medical threat or a mental health threat, nor should it be.

It is worth remembering that in excess of 4,000 women with Irish addresses travelled to England and Wales last year for a termination of pregnancy. We do not know enough about these women and their reasons for seeking a termination. I was surprised, for example, by the number of women over 40 years of age who sought terminations. I have no doubt that if we knew more about their reasons for seeking terminations, it would not be a surprise that many of those terminations were sought on the grounds of health. I fear this legislation will not change that situation and women will continue to vote with their feet.

However, what is important about this legislation is that women who find themselves too ill to travel or children in the care of the State will have their needs better protected than currently. That we continue to ignore the needs of women who must leave this country for a termination and have done so over many decades is a disgrace and one that will continue for the foreseeable future.

This legislation is measured, as many other speakers have pointed out. Indeed, the Leader has gone further and suggested that far from permitting the opening of the floodgates, it will limit those seeking terminations. It will give reassurance to women in Ireland that medical professionals can put their best interests first. I regret, as many other speakers have said, that this legislation does not go further. We have failed Irish women, in particular in the area of fatal foetal abnormalities. However, that is a matter for another day.

The serious threat to a woman's health leaves her in a position where she is not equal to an Irish man. An Irish man can have his medical issues addressed without fear but a woman cannot have her medical issues addressed if she is pregnant and where is an issue in regard to her health.

It is worth bearing in mind when looking at the Bill that it will change nothing. It goes back to what the Minister said very eloquently at the beginning of his speech. Since 1983, when we introduced a prohibition on abortion, well over 120,000 Irish women have travelled for a termination. We have gone nowhere towards addressing the real issue in Ireland, which is that the country is ignoring the needs of a very substantial number of Irish women. It is not for today or tomorrow and may perhaps be a matter for a future Government but, ultimately, we will have to address this issue by way of a further constitutional referendum.