Katherine Zappone (Independent) | Oireachtas source

I have tried to be succinct on the amendment that we tabled but, effectively, that is what the amendment means.

The other amendment to which I wish to refer relates to a different way to approach the matter but it is of a similar nature. I refer to amendment No. 12 which I tabled with Senators Quinn, Crown and Barrett, which effectively adds text to the amendment to the Constitution that is being put to the people. It states that if the Oireachtas enacts Seanad reform prior to this term being over then there should be no abolition. That is effectively the gist of the amendment. It is based on reform and a number of criteria. What I am saying to the Minister of State is that I do not think those amendments should have been overruled. They are not about a preferendum; they are simply adding text to the amendment that will be put to the people. I am responding to the Minister of State’s argument that we should not be talking about reform.

That was my second point. The two other points I wished to make were in response to the Minister of State’s intervention about costs. I accept we have talked a lot about costs. The Taoiseach is the one who first raised the issue of costs, which is why we then rebutted those arguments which, in effect, are now dead in the water.

The last point I wish to make about what the Minister of State put forward is the different types of Dáil reform that will be introduced subsequent to the people abolishing the Seanad. He listed in his intervention, as he outlined on previous occasions and in press releases, that the reform includes a pre-legislative phase, a legislative phase and a post-legislative phase and that the Minister will become involved in the latter. It is not just about the time for scrutiny. It is about who is involved in it. In the plan, as outlined, the same people are doing the scrutiny, as distinct from our plan where different people with different expertise would carry out the scrutiny.

One could ask whether we need Dáil reform. I am sure we are all aware of the tweet and the video with the tweet that is going around the country currently about what happened in the Dáil last evening when a male Deputy pulled a female Deputy onto his lap. The comment with the video is largely about whether Dáil reform is necessary.