Marc MacSharry (Fianna Fail) | Oireachtas source

I am on section 1. I make no apologies for going into the maximum possible detail on legislation which is vandalising the Constitution.

As I said in another debate last week, I think of the people in Iran when they were trying to get rid of the Shah and get something better. I think of people in other countries who were striving for civil liberties and went for a particular choice but ended up with something so much worse. It is inappropriate simply to put the question and capitalise on the level of public apathy for politics that exists at the moment. I believe if the question of abolishing the Dáil were put to the people, there would be a risk that people would abolish the Dáil. If they were asked to abolish the Judiciary and replace it with something else, it is conceivable that people would consider such an issue.

However, the Taoiseach wants to abolish it. Everybody in these Houses knows that, including most of the journalistic crew, many of whom would be happy to see the end of the Seanad. As we can see from the overloaded Visitors Gallery, the level of interest in this House has been non-existent but they conveniently bury that by saying that if the Seanad did anything useful, they would cover it. I do not know any Senator who is on the editorial team in RTE, Independent Newspapers or any of the other news agencies around the country. In fairness, local radio stations and the local media are very good in that regard because they tend to cover the politicians from the various counties but the national media does not cover it, and that has been one of the problems.

In its relatively flawed state in terms of its election system, most of us might like to see universal franchise, the scrutiny of public appointments and proposed European Union directives, and the opportunities afforded us under Lisbon II but we will not be given that option. The question will be simply "Yes" or "No" to its abolition, and it is a risky one. We must be careful what we wish for. The election was bought on a manifesto of promises and the only one the Government is prepared to carry through is the abolition of the Seanad - the vandalisation of the Constitution - without giving people an option or asking if they want it abolished or reformed. If it asked that question and the answer was that it should be reformed, by all means it should be given to a body such as the Constitutional Convention, which deals with Mickey Mouse issues compared to what it is capable of considering, to examine the most appropriate reform. I would suggest considering the Mary O'Rourke document, the debate on which all of us, including the Minister, participated in. I regret I do not have the submissions before me because I wanted to read the submission of the former Taoiseach and leader of Fine Gael, John Bruton, into the record of the House, which would be useful.