Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour) | Oireachtas source

Let us get on with the people's business.

Senator Sheahan referred to bias. That is covered extensively in the Bill. In terms of costs, we have taken a great deal of care to have a determining process for costs that, first, must be scoped out in advance of an inquiry being embarked upon. A formal scoping must be made with a presentation of estimated costs. At the end of the process, for those who are entitled to get legal costs, an independent process, as set out in the Bill, will be used to make that determination.

The Bill contains extensive powers to deal with non-co-operating witnesses. I refer to the offences sections, namely, sections 64, 75 and 90. Section 64 specifies:

64.--(1) A person who--(a) on examination under oath under section 45, or in any affidavit referred to in that section, gives evidence knowing the evidence to be false or misleading in a material particular or being reckless as to whether it is so false or misleading, or
(b) knowingly gives a document referred to in that section which is false or misleading in a material particular or being reckless as to whether it is so false or misleading,is guilty of an offence.

On conviction or indictment, such a person could face a fine of €500,000 or five years in prison. That is the penalty for giving false evidence. Section 75 covers other offences. Subsection (1) states:

(1) A person who-- (a) having been directed under paragraph (a) of section 67(1) to attend before a committee and having had tendered to him or her any sum in respect of the expenses of his or her attendance before the committee which a witness summoned to attend before the Court would be entitled to have tendered to him or her, without reasonable excuse, fails to comply with the direction,
(b) being in attendance before a committee pursuant to a direction under paragraph (a) of section 67(1), refuses to take the oath on being required by the committee to do so or refuses to answer any question to which the committee is entitled by law to require an answer,
(c) without reasonable excuse, fails to comply with a direction...

is, again, guilty of an offence. I will not go through all of the sections. There are very robust powers on compellability, answering questions and attending if one is required to so do.

I thank Senator O'Keeffe for her complimentary words on the reform agenda. This should be cited in that. Most of the publicity I get in my job is on the fiscal side, which is important in terms of balancing the books. That is the focus of most attention but the reform side of my Department - the name “reform” - is as important to me. I said publicly that if there is to be a legacy in my Department it will be on the reform side rather than the fiscal side. Getting the books balanced is extremely important if we are to have any future but restoring broken politics or a broken polity would be more important in the longer term. There is a huge agenda of change, much of which is being constructed below the horizon at present in terms of participation in the Open Government Partnership and Open Data so that we almost move beyond freedom of information and that all data will be accessible as a matter of routine. If one adds to that the legislation on lobbyists, whistleblowers and freedom of information, the corpus of work will have a very important impact which, to put it bluntly, has not been seen since we were last in government when we introduced the Freedom of Information Act, the ethics Acts, the electoral Acts and all the reform that has not been advanced very much since.

Senator O'Keeffe asked a number of questions. She referred to the capacity of Members. I have already addressed that. I believe that no more or less than elected Members of Parliament in any other analogous parliament we have the capacity to do the people's business. We are not particularly infirm in this country because of the good weather or whatever else to do the business any less than British Members of Parliament, US Members of Congress or the French Members of the Assemblée Nationale among others. On the question of who is to investigate, in preparation for this Bill I originally wrote to the Cathaoirleach of the Seanad and to the Ceann Comhairle of the Dáil because I thought they would be the persons to determine in each House if there was a request who should conduct the inquiry and other such matters. In the other House it will be a committee determined by the House itself, most likely to be the Committee on Procedure and Privileges, which will determine whether there is to be an inquiry and its scope. The Cathaoirleach will be involved in this House.

Under the Constitution the Attorney General has two roles. One is to be the legal adviser to the Government and the other is to be the defender of the Constitution. The Attorney General is not the legal adviser to the Parliament and will not be. There needs to be a robust, independent advisory system.