Darragh O'Brien (Fianna Fail) | Oireachtas source

He told a blatant mistruth. He should know better. I believe from talking to colleagues who were in the last Seanad that he was quite an effective Senator. I call for honesty in the debate. Does the Minister of State agree with the figures from the Office of Public Works about the cost of running the House? Is it €50 million, €30 million or €8 million? The Department of Finance answered parliamentary questions on the matter in the other House. If that is the case, we need a debate and I would welcome that if it was truthful.

The Taoiseach has started off in a very lacklustre way because he is couching this as part of reform. Senator Barrett put it clearly. He referred to the abolition of Údarás na Gaeltachta, the reduction of the number of councillors, the abolition of town councils and the reduction in the number of Deputies, which was to be 20 and will now be eight in number. Reduction and abolition do not amount to reform. I speak as someone who served in Dáil Éireann during the last Dáil and as someone proud to serve in the Seanad now. I see many things done in Seanad Éireann that would improve what happens in Dáil Éireann and vice versa. The simple abolition of this House is not the way forward. I will campaign vigorously against it, not as a Senator but as a citizen. Other Senators remarked - as did I - on Second Stage that there have been over 540 amendments dealt with in this House and accepted by the Government. One could put it that there were either 540 omissions or mistakes from the Dáil which had to be corrected in law. What is the Taoiseach proposing should go in its stead? Perhaps the Minister of State will inform us today of what is being proposed in place of the Seanad, should it be abolished.

It was cowardly in the extreme for the Taoiseach to say that if this referendum is defeated, there would be no reform. We have tried. There have been reforms in this Seanad. I commend the Leader, Senator Maurice Cummins, the Cathaoirleach, Senator Paddy Burke, and all Members of the Seanad.

We have endeavoured to make this Chamber more relevant to open it up to the public, which we have done. We have far more constructive debates than I experienced in Dáil Éireann, and I still watch there. We have had rafts of legislation introduced here, including another excellent Bill produced by Senator White this evening. Where do we go if there is no Seanad? What is in place? The Taoiseach is proposing to give some additional powers to Dáil committees. With the exception of the Committee of Public Accounts, Dáil and Oireachtas committees have failed because they have not been given the resources required to carry out their jobs.

There is no scrutiny of European legislation of any note in committees. We have asked repeatedly for the Seanad to be given that role in scrutinising EU directives and legislation. Senators could unpick those and report back to Government, which could report back to the EU. However, the Taoiseach did not allow that either. The Taoiseach will be remembered as one of the most autocratic taoisigh the country has ever seen. His reform agenda is simply an agenda to centralise power. He has already centralised power in his Economic Management Council of four people who have served in the Dáil for more than 30 years. I would love to know what the Taoiseach's own record as a legislator is for the more than 35 years he has served in Dáil Éireann. Prior to entering government, how many Bills did he actually publish? How many amendments did Deputy Enda Kenny table and get passed in Dáil Éireann?