Susan O'Keeffe (Labour) | Oireachtas source

The Minister of State is very welcome. It is good to have him in the House for his first outing and I hope he is enjoying the robust and informative exchanges we always have here. I hope the glass of wine he may have at the weekend will be even more enjoyable now that Senator O'Brien has alerted him to its contents.

Like others, I welcome the great hard work done by Senator Quinn in producing this Bill. It demonstrates again that the Seanad has a role, because in their own time Members here take up issues that are of importance to them. I remember when Senator Quinn introduced umbrellas to Superquinn for the protection of shoppers and I remember thinking at the time that it was a very clever idea. While it was a simple idea, it was clever because it said he cared about his customers. This Bill demonstrates that the Senator still cares about his customers. It was not today nor yesterday he introduced umbrellas, but he is still in the business of caring for the customers of Ireland. I applaud him for that.

Like Senator O'Brien, I take issue with some elements of the Bill, but the purpose of the Bill is to provoke the debate and to encourage all of us to think more about the importance of labelling, not least because of the enormous increase in diabetes type 2, the growth in obesity and the fact that we have enormous issues with regard to how food is produced. Many of us here of a certain age never needed labels, because our food came from our own gardens and farms or those of neighbours, sometimes via the shop, to our tables. However, once we went into food production or into industrial or factory food, we bowed to the need for labelling. This is what has us in the mess we are in today, because labelling is an extraordinarily difficult area. Labelling is difficult to get right, because once we start on the issue it becomes even more complicated.

Members are aware that one could have a label saying "Smoked Irish Salmon" or one saying "Irish Smoked Salmon". Which is Irish? How many people remember when they go to the shelf which one they should buy? They do not know because of the confusion created by the very people who are paid to brand things properly but who do not. The labelling describing something as 90% fat-free means the product is 10% fat, which is quite high. If a product says it is flavoured with something, or says it has a strawberry flavour, it means the product tastes like strawberry, but does not mean it contains strawberry. On the other hand, if the product is strawberry-flavoured, it tastes like strawberries because there are strawberries in it. How many people know that when they go to the shelf to decide on a product? Even when we try to improve labelling and care about providing correct information, we still manage to create enormous confusion. However, that is not to say we should not have this conversation.

One of the elements of the Bill with which I have an issue is the proposal regarding the first three ingredients. As Senator O'Brien has said, this leads to a difficulty with regard to the other ingredients. If we look at the Food Safety Authority of Ireland website today, we will see that Green Isle has recalled its Harvest stir-fry mix due to possible contamination with datura seeds. I do not know what a datura seed is and have never heard of it. However, I imagine the Harvest Stir Fry is not full of them, but that they are a minor ingredient. Obviously, the company is concerned about a possible contaminant. Much contamination is of smaller ingredients whose provenance is not known. Much of the time these ingredients come from countries where temperatures spike and they become infected easily, particularly with fungal infections. Recently, Tesco recalled its Tesco Yeast Extract due to high levels of histamine. Who would have thought that was a problem? There is a list of other products on the site that have been recalled. Of course, this shows us that the Food Safety Authority of Ireland is doing a good job, but it also informs us that there are great difficulties with regard to food ingredients. Where does one start and where does one stop with the labelling? I accept that it is important to list the three most important ingredients in a product and it is right in principle to require them to be listed. However, in practice such labelling fails when these problems arise with other ingredients whose provenance is not listed.

In fact, they might be the very things that caused the problem with the food in the first instance and be the cause for it to be recalled. I particularly agree with regard to alcohol as it is plainly disgraceful that we have no idea what it contains. Neither do we know what is in toothpaste. I often wonder what on earth we are putting in our mouths as we profess to be cleaning our teeth. I would love to know what is in toothpaste and I have not quite got to the bottom of it. All I know is that the tubes are becoming more complicated and it is difficult to get the toothpaste out of them. However, that is not the subject of our discussion today.

I do not mind being a good European when progress is being made with regard to food labelling. The 2011 regulation is making progress, in my view. It provides a framework for the label listing of fat, saturated fat and carbohydrates. This is significant progress, in my view. I am fortunate to have a degree in food science and perhaps that means it is easier for me but the system needs to be simplified. For example, the traffic lights system or similar might be the best option. At least we are persuading food producers of the importance of putting that information on the food and it is becoming part of people's language. At least they can interpret the figures and decide whether a figure is too high and they can make a choice about eating the food. Food labelling is not enough, particularly in the battle against obesity. The cost of food is lower than it used to be and people are being encouraged to eat food that is not very healthy. There is a pretence that labelling food means it is the responsibility of the consumer to decide whether to eat it. That is not what could be called food education.

EU regulations stipulate that the origin of foods such as beef, honey, olive oil and fresh fruit and vegetables must be stated on the label in accordance with sector-specific legislation. The EU is currently concluding the examination of whether this labelling should be extended to beef. This audit is nearly concluded and the information will be provided by the end of the year. Within a further year the Commission will have to introduce rules on foods such as milk and dairy products. The past two years has seen much activity across all member states and this lends weight to the regulations by making them more robust. While I am happy to shout it from the rooftops that Ireland has a very fine record for very good food I am not sure on this occasion that trying to lay another piece of legislation on top of existing legislation will necessarily make it easier for legislators or make the legislation any better. Aspects of the legislation might be useful - particularly with regard to alcohol and the fresh fish and fresh food bought in certain shops - if a way can be found to inform the consumer of the provenance of the fish such as, "This fish was caught today in Donegal", or that the fish had been frozen. That might be of assistance. However, I would not be in favour of a twin-track approach with the EU regulations as there is already too much confusion. Many examples of labelling such as, "strawberry flavour" cause confusion. I am concerned that this Bill might add to that confusion and I do not think for a moment that this was the Senator's intention.

The Food Safety Authority of Ireland has responsibility for food labelling. In my view it should be a completely independent body which should be better resourced. As Senator Quinn said, the horsemeat scandal highlighted the length and also the complexity of the food chain. It is now a horse-traders' market, if I can be excused the description. Everyone wants to get into the market and to trade as much as possible. This was not the case even ten years ago. Even if every piece of food were to be labelled, it will not stop those who want to cheat the system. Even if food had every label under the sun, a person who wants to use horsemeat will do so, regardless. The labelling will not stop the use of horsemeat but the length and complexity of the food chain, the fact that more products are being included in foodstuffs, is the difficulty. That is why the Food Safety Authority of Ireland needs full independence and more resources to ensure it can continue to do its good work and also to support our good farmers who continue to produce good product in the name of Ireland and which is sold abroad. That is my request to the Minister of State.