Mary Moran (Labour) | Oireachtas source

I thank the Minister of State for coming into the House. Along with many of my colleagues in both Houses, I have serious issues with this Bill. The waters have been muddied considerably by some of the facts and figures thrown about by those pushing forward this amendment to the Constitution. It has been said that the abolition of the Seanad would save €20 million, but this has been shown not to be the case. The Houses of the Oireachtas have made it clear that a proper cost-benefit analysis has not been carried out. It has been argued that considerable Dáil reform has taken place. I would argue that the word "considerable" means something different to me than it does to some of those who claim it. It has been said that the Seanad did nothing to stop the excesses of the Celtic tiger. If we are to start pointing fingers, I would start by pointing them straight back at the Cabinet that was here at the time and the Members of Dáil Éireann who presided over that period.

I believe that a referendum is the way to go to decide the future of the Seanad. I have no problem with that, but why is reform not part of the option? Why are we putting an incomplete referendum to the people? Why is the call of the people outside of these gates not being listened to in this instance? It is unfortunate that the Taoiseach is not here for all of this debate on the future of our democracy. In my view, we have already been written off by some and pushed aside. I would like to relay to the people involved in this debate, including the Taoiseach, the important work being carried out inside and outside the Chamber. We have properly debated legislation in this Chamber, unlike the system in the Dáil of merely reading out statements to be put on the record. My Opposition colleagues in this Chamber have brought forward important amendments that have greatly enhanced legislation, for example during the debate on the recent Taxi Regulation Bill 2012. As Senator O'Brien pointed out last week, 529 amendments have been made in this House. I am delighted that I have some amendments accepted. If that is not what is democracy is about, then I do not know what is.

Outside the Chamber we have met and lobbied on behalf of campaigns and causes that we believe are just and important. We hold clinics and we connect with people every day. We make it our business to represent the people of Ireland. To call us rotten or useless or any other number of negative comments, as has been done by people who are now TDs but were glad to take a Senator's salary when they were in here, is both ignorant and populist.

I will support having a referendum as it is important to put such issues to the people. I will accept and respect whatever the people of Ireland choose, but I cannot support what is being done at the moment. The Taoiseach has decided to bring forward legislation that will forever change the landscape of Irish politics, without providing concrete answers on what will replace it. There has been talk of groups of experts, strengthened committees and so on. Frankly, one does not propose to abolish one thing without strong proposals for its replacement. The Taoiseach did not address that issue last week.

We could be looking at a very similar but smaller structure to Seanad Éireann with this so-called expert group appointed to the Cabinet, but is this really the answer?