John Kelly (Labour) | Oireachtas source

The Taoiseach was in Glenties before the last election and he made it quite clear and gave categoric support for the retention and reform of Seanad Éireann. That is what we want. At the time, my party leader was riding high in the personality poles so the Taoiseach decided to go with this populist nonsense and advocate the abolition of the Seanad. That is not democracy. If that is not the reason the Taoiseach did that at that time, then what was the reason? Why did he change his view in a few short months from wanting to retain Seanad Éireann to wanting to abolish it. I would like to know the reason, but unfortunately the Taoiseach is not here today to answer that question.

During the debate in the Dáil on the abolition of the Seanad, I had to laugh as I watched party colleagues from both parties in government advocate the abolition of the Seanad when most of them, like the Minister of State who is present in this Chamber, are former Members of the Seanad. I wonder if during their term in the House they called for reform of the Seanad or abolition of the Seanad. I believe at no stage did they do so. However, they acknowledge that the Dáil needs oversight. What they are now looking for is for Deputies to have more power and resources to fund more powerful committees. Let me ask how much will be needed in additional resources. On the recent "Prime Time Investigates" programme, an expert said that the savings from the abolition of the Seanad will be €4.2 million and no doubt the plan that Deputies have will be to get €4.2 million of extra resources for themselves. We will end up with no savings. In the past we have been critical of the gardaí investigating other gardaí, but the Taoiseach and the elite four who are running this country want Deputies to be overseeing other Deputies. That is not proper accountability.

I am seeking a pledge from the Minister of State and many other Members of the Lower House who are advocating the abolition of the Seanad, that if the people see through this proposal, which I expect they will and vote to retain Seanad Éireann, those Deputies promise me and everybody else in this Chamber that they will not seek a seat in Seanad Éireann, as they consider it a useless place to work. I am not trying to save Seanad Éireann for myself because I honestly believe there will be enough casualties after the next election that I will be well down the ladder for consideration, but I believe in proper accountability.

I was also intrigued as to why the Taoiseach blamed the Seanad for doing nothing about the excesses of the Celtic tiger. I tried to analyse the wording used when he said that. The only thing he can be suggesting is that Fianna Fáil Senators of the day should have voted against the Fianna Fáil Government of the day. That is the only thing I can assume he was suggesting. That is the ideal scenario we would all like to be in, when we would have a free vote, in accordance with conscience particularly in the Protection of Life During Pregnancy Bill 2013, but that is not the way it works. What he said was nonsense. I want to put on record that I was not a Member of this House during the previous term of government but the Fine Gael Party were represented in this House and it voted for the bank guarantee in this House. My party, the Labour Party, did not vote for it. Should we be looking for the abolition of the Fine Gael Party because of what it did and not the abolition of the Seanad?