Jim Walsh (Fianna Fail) | Oireachtas source

I thank Senator Daly for sharing time. In 2008, at the start of our economic difficulties, I recall one Senator saying that the first casualty of an economic crisis is democracy. Last week, I visited the Yad Vashem Holocaust Museum in Jerusalem. Its first depiction was of the national socialists coming to power in Germany in 1932 where they dismantled the Reichstag, which had disastrous consequences. There is a similarity in that the economic turmoil in Germany at that time was such that people did not have money and were dying of hunger as they were unable to access food. There are similarities here with the downturn in the economy. I am concerned that we are moving in that direction. Some have made the analogy between, say, the final solution and the Protection of Life During Pregnancy Bill 2013 which is before the Houses. I have been struck and I have made the comment in the House during the past 12 months or more on the totalitarian tendencies that I have seen from the Government. It has manifested itself almost weekly in the Dáil and also in the Seanad where important Bills which have a significant impact on people's lives are guillotined as a matter of routine. I can understand that a Government which has a 60 seat majority can use it to bulldoze whatever it wishes through the Houses. However, I do not think that dismantling the second Chamber, one of the institutions of the State, is in the interests of the public or in the interests of holding the Government to account. Governments, when held to account, invariably perform much better than they do if not held to account. While certain Ministers are reluctant to come to this House, the same was true when Fianna Fáil was in power. On the guillotining of Bills, the property tax legislation was guillotined in this House at section 5, yet it had 57 sections. Subsequent to that, issues came to light in the media which should have been highlighted and debated in this House. That did not happen.

It is not just the guillotining of Bills. The control of business and speaking times are other issues. The rigid Whip system is applied in all circumstances, even in issues of conscience. We have a situation at present where Members in Government in the Lower House are concerned about the pressure being brought to bear on them, which in some instances is tantamount to bullying, when those at the head of their parties try to whip them into line to ensure they vote in a certain way. Seeking for people to abrogate their conscience flies in the face of democracy but it is also not in the interests of the public. What these Houses must do is hear contrarian views and debate them in a strong and robust manner in these Houses. That is the essence of democracy. We dismantle democracy at our peril.

What is needed is reform of both Houses and probably of all three Houses, as it were. The Presidency should also be looked at as part of this reform. Of all the Houses, the Lower House is in urgent need of reform. A system has evolved where 15 members in Cabinet prescribe the business of the House, the time to be allocated for it, which is done through the Whips, and what is on the agenda. That has proven not to be in the interests of our people. In fact the groupthink which took place throughout the last decade whereby both Government and Opposition parties all wanted to spend more and wanted to reduce taxes has, in a significant way, contributed to the current difficulties which every citizen is experiencing.

There is also the dismantling of local government and particularly town councils. The Minister was in New Ross last Saturday and witnessed the improvements the town council has made to the town. I spent 30 years on New Ross Town Council and 25 years on Wexford County Council. While Wexford County Council has more resources, I can honestly say that the input of members of the town council was far more constructive and had a much better influence on the lives of people than Wexford County Council. In the Houses, we see what influence we really have, given that those 15 people prescribe the business of the House. We had a situation last year where four Cabinet Ministers complained three or four days prior to the budget that they had no idea what was in it because the Economic Management Council, made up of three former schoolteachers and one former trade union official, were dictating the way the economy would go, backed up by people in the public service who never worked in the private sector. The issue of EU scrutiny has been mentioned.

This House has a proud record of making contributions to debates. It has many independent voices which have spoken and enhanced not just the legislation and the debate but have had an influence on the lives of people in various ways. I would like to think we would move from a position of abolition to reforming all the Houses in the interests of the people, because that is why we are here. We are not here to serve ourselves. We are not here for greater devolution of powers on to ourselves or on to the small and elite. This is a democracy. We dismantle it at our peril.