Susan O'Keeffe (Labour) | Oireachtas source

I welcome the Minister of State to the House. I join other Senators in acknowledging Senator MacSharry's concern and his efforts in this regard. Nobody in the House would have a difficulty in the broad area of moneylending, especially illegal moneylending. People have outlined very clearly that it is a criminal activity that causes grief, not just with financial worry for families but also on a much wider scale when it comes to the kind of intimidation and harassment used on a regular basis.

It was not Senator MacSharry's intention in the Bill to make the law more confusing, as has been suggested, by merging the two very separate and distinct offences of unlicensed moneylending and demanding money with menaces. I share many of his concerns - we are both based in Sligo - but neither of us wants to add to anything that would make the law more confusing. Raising the matter and related issues is important, and it is clear that for the Government, the challenge remains what can we do to tackle this very difficult problem. There are many and varied approaches to take so I will mention some possible action that could be separate to legislation. The difficulty with bringing people before the courts has been explained, because people are intimidated and afraid and do not know what to do. The last thing people will do is point out a particular person and be willing to give evidence in court. I am aware there are two cases pending in Sligo that are with the Director of Public Prosecutions, and I hope they will come to court and help set an example.

I give credit to the work of the Communities Against Illegal Lending of Money, CAILM, group in Sligo, set up as a subgroup of the RAPID community safety task force. It includes the RAPID co-ordinator, community gardaí, the credit union, MABS, the Sligo Education Centre, social services, the Springboard resource house project, the Cranmore community co-op, Northside CDP, other community representatives, the Cranmore regeneration project, Sligo Borough Council and elected members. It is often difficult to appreciate the level of co-operation required, but it is a very good model and perhaps one we might see in other parts of Ireland. People who are genuinely concerned have come together to share expertise and knowledge, and although their achievements so far may be terribly simple, they have also been terribly effective.

The first achievement is related to raising awareness and getting the message out there. The group speaks to people in the community, particularly in Cranmore, where there has been a specific problem, but also in other areas of Sligo. CAILM has produced a brochure, entitled Lenny Disease in Your Community, which indicates that so-called "lennies" are nasty and poisonous pests that can be found anywhere in any community. They are quite cunning but are generally quite dumb. Of course, a "lenny" is an illegal moneylender. These leaflets have been spread as part of an awareness-raising campaign that includes press releases and radio pieces.

They have presented to the joint policing committee in Sligo and, of course, they have lobbied Members of the Oireachtas. That is part of their job. We sometimes underestimate the need for awareness raising. Many people do not know there are other avenues available.

The other step, after awareness raising, is to do something about it. The initiative of developing a community bank in Crannmore estate has been very welcome. It is operated by Sligo Credit Union and the Resource House project. It is a small bank specifically for that area and it is slowly beginning to encourage a savings habit in people who were never able to have a bank account, never understood what a bank account was, never wanted a bank account and, perhaps, had used illegal money lenders on previous occasions because that is all they had available to them. They have actively promoted the services of credit unions, MABS and social services. They have done this through the schools, in summer school holidays and have gone in and talked very effectively to parents trying to encourage them to see different ways they can recycle and reuse things that perhaps they did not think of before. It is a very slow, but effective, process. Finally, CAM has been working very closely with the Garda to try to help people to come forward and say, until we start prosecuting people and we see them in court we will not understand that this is a crime and we will not be able to send a message.

I was very lucky many years ago when I worked at the BBC to go to Birmingham where they had a very good pilot project. It was only in the early days then. I remember them saying it to me at the time, when I worked as a senior producer, that they very much hoped it would be a project they would roll out across the UK. Indeed, they have done that. They have used a lot of money. They have seconded police officers who specialise in gathering intelligence on money lending. They have had 180 prosecutions since they have been set up. They have very specific support for victims. They work very closely with the trading standards team. They have financial inclusion partnership officers who do nothing else but specifically support communities and raise awareness. They do what Communities Against Illegal Lending of Money, CAILM, is doing but on a much grander and better-financed scale. They are using social media, talking to credit unions and local banks and effectively taking the fight to the loan sharks and saying that until they do that, nothing will change. One of the people they prosecuted and imprisoned had charged the highest APR ever recorded, 117,000%.

There is a lot of work to be done. The challenge is with Government. It may not be through this piece of legislation, but it certainly means there is a support process. I advocate that the work done by CAILM, funded by this Government, would be used as a model to be rolled out and supported in a much wider context so that we would be seen to be active on the ground to defeat what is an extremely serious and growing problem, particularly for families who can least afford it and who are least able to cope with it.