Terry Leyden (Fianna Fail) | Oireachtas source

He might have the opportunity again. In my Father's house there are many rooms, but certainly in this House there will not be one left.

I served in both the Dáil and Seanad and have a different perspective from most people present. I served for a number of years in different Departments and brought legislation to this House. I do not know whether the Minister will agree but it is much easier bringing legislation to the Dáil than the Seanad. At one point, the anteroom was used as the Seanad Chamber while the Chamber was being redeveloped owing to structural problems. At that point, I brought forward legislation to remove the word "illegitimacy" from law. Ms Mary Robinson was the lead Senator at the time and she was very active and effective. My officials at the time were more concerned about the Seanad than anywhere else, and we were gearing up for the Seanad debate. That is why I have tremendous respect for this House and why I am in favour of its retention. The people have a respect for and love of Bunreacht na hÉireann, the Constitution. The Minister might as well rip it up. Approximately 70 sections of this Bill will become redundant if the Government gets its way with the people. Fianna Fáil opposes the abolition of the Seanad because the Government has not gone ahead with reforms. The Government proposed the removal of 20 TDs in its manifesto, yet it did not put this to the people. It reduced the number by eight, which is within the Constitution. The Government had not the courage of its convictions in that regard. It has courage and conviction in regard to the removal of the Seanad.

It is absolutely clear in the Constitution that "[t]he Oireachtas shall consist of the President and two Houses, viz.: a House of Representatives to be called Dáil Éireann and a Senate to be called Seanad Éireann". If the President is out of the country, the Cathaoirleach, the Ceann Comhairle and a Supreme Court judge are responsible for the signature of legislation. That provision will be gone. There are numerous sections in the Constitution that embed the Seanad in our system. It would be more honest to opt for full redesign of the Constitution rather than the section in question.

The Leader has endeavoured to bring in the role of the Seanad under the Lisbon Treaty and the European Union Bill 2009. I hope we will succeed in that regard. The Leader has established a small committee to examine this matter. It is important that legislation not being considered at present be considered. There were many proposals for the reform of this House over the years. It is unfortunate that the nettle was not grasped in that regard. Former Senator Mary O'Rourke formed a committee that was very effective and which made proposals but governmental circumstances developed that did not allow for further progress in that regard. The matter is quite academic at present.

The Bill before us is sound and has much merit. Senator Crown has advocated other proposals. If the people decide in October 2013, or in 2014, not to abolish the Seanad, this Bill, Senator Crown's Bill and other proposals will be considered by the Government. I appeal to the Minister to put to the people three options, namely, one on abolition, one on retention and one on reform. The people should be given a choice. There is nothing in the Constitution that would prevent the asking of multiple questions. That is a matter for the Minister.

There will be a concerted campaign against the Government on this matter. It should bear in mind that it may lose. It may be the beginning of the end for the Government. I hope to God it loses and that every Fianna Fáil supporter will vote against the abolition of the Seanad because it serves the people. It serves democracy and prevents a dictatorial Government, with a majority never seen in the Houses before-----