David Norris (Independent) | Oireachtas source

I admire the Minister because I admire affrontery. I have never seen anything quite as dazzling as the Minister's affrontery here tonight. In fact, it calls to mind the popular association between political neck and the undercarriage of a jockey as he approaches Becher's Brook. I prove this from what the Minister said. He said with regard to the Seanad and this Bill that any decision for change should be fully teased out.

What a pity that the Minister and the Taoiseach did not tease out the consequences and their own squalid motivation in attempting to sacrifice the Seanad in exchange for the complete bags everyone in the other House made of the economy in defiance of the voices, including my own, raised in this House to warn them against what they were doing. I am glad that I voted against the bank guarantee and that, despite interference from the Chair, I mentioned the squalid names of those to whom we were paying the money - the bondholders.

The Minister dares to invoke the convention. I ask him to reconsider. He has suggested we be allowed to consider including voters from abroad but not, of course, reform of the Seanad or its abolition. That makes a farce of the convention which we are treating with contempt. That is why the Minister has a gall to come here and refer to it. I will be there on Saturday and certainly hope his call which I will present to the convention for it to be considered will be taken up by it. He then referred to the 156,000 people currently registered to vote whom he seems to promote in some way. I remind him that they vote for the university Senators who were the original target of all parties in this House because we had spoken out. Thank God, independence has been declared. This is a very important moment for Seanad Éireann.

The Minister's final point was unscripted. He said he welcomed this opportunity, that he was very conciliatory and all the rest of it. He also said he was accommodating because he liked debate - like hell he does. The reason he is here is he is facing a rebellion on the Government benches. As this Bill would have gone through anyway, he was faced withrealpolitik. That is the only reason he is here; there is no other. Thank God, Seanad Éireann has at last found its teeth. I wish it had done so on the business of the budget and the issues of carers, but, thank God, it has happened now, which is about bloody time.

I will be taking over as spokesman - not quite leader - of this group and some initiatives are in train. We have 30 Bills on the Order Paper which are being stymied by the Government. The Dáil can look forward to a few messages from this House. This is a very significant moment for Seanad Éireann because of what is happening this evening and we must carry all Members with us without division. We must ensure we present a united front to those who seek to divide and diminish us. I will be supporting the Bill if it is ever put to a vote.

I refer to the aspect of significance that has not been referred to as yet. Despite the machinations of the Government and its attempts to cheat the people of a decent choice, from tonight the people will know - I hope it will go out as the message from this debate - that it is no longer a question of abolition or retention. It is now vitally and significantly a question of reform or abolish. We have the capacity to reform and will reform. I do not entirely agree with some aspects of the Bill and look forward to having the opportunity on Committee Stage to indicating what they are. We are presenting the people with an opportunity to make a real choice, not a choice between desecrating the Constitution and creating a very serious problem. The Government has everything. It won the Presidency and the general election. It controls the Seanad, the Dáil, councils, the Army, the Naval Service, the Air Corps, the police and the banks that it bought with our money.