Marie Louise O'Donnell (Independent) | Oireachtas source

I accept that.

The Title should be changed because the Bill is about the sale of the national lottery licence and it is not the National Lottery Bill. It is completely different. Why would somebody in the private sector want to buy our lottery? Why are we seeking €500 million for the sale of our lottery, if it is not a sale? Why is some outside gaming consortium in the private sector going to pay us? Why are we looking for bidders, if it is not a sale over 20 years? Who will give us €500 million?

I understand we need the money to build the national children's hospital but my argument is that we are automatically on the back foot if we look for €500 million. If we were to get €400 million, €500 million or €600 million upfront, that is a sale and if it is not a sale, it is a loan. If it is a loan, that makes it even more disastrous. Either way, we must pay it back. Not only do we have to pay it back but we must pay back the profit on it. If one has to extract profits, no gaming consortium or otherwise will give the Government €500 million unless it will look for that €500 million and the profits on it over 20 years back.

One cannot say it is a National Lottery Bill; it is the sale of the national lottery licence over 20 years for money upfront to pay for the national children's hospital.

It follows that any investor will expect to make a massive profit from the venture. It will have chosen it because the Irish national lottery is known as one of the best cash cows in Europe and is guaranteed its money back. One cannot say that it is not a sale. It is a sale of the national lottery licence. It is not a national lottery Bill that will reap a rich reward.

I wish to make a basic point. What if somebody hands over between €400 million and €600 million? I feel that the national lottery is worth an awful lot more but we will not get that sum in July which is why selling it off is a massive mistake. The sale is an exchange. The licence is a commodity. It is an exchange of the operation and running of the licence for the next 20 years yet we do not know what Ireland will look like in three years. I hope that I have not been theatrical and declamatory as was stated last week. I am extremely convinced about my claim and I would like the Minister of State to answer my query. When people rose to speak about the matter they said, and they have told me the same for weeks, that this is not a sale. However, on every second line the term "sale" is used. It is the sale of the national lottery licence for 20 years and that is why the head of the Bill should be changed.

I am a communicator - at least I hope that I am - and I implore the Minister of State to say what the legislation is. This is obfuscation. The whole thing is built around receipt of an upfront payment which twists our lottery from what it was into something else, a profit and loss margin. The profit may come from a gaming consortium or whoever buys it. The buyer will not be from England or Ireland because we do not have €500 million. An Post does not have €500 million and I do not know of any pension fund with €500 million. People are looting their pension funds to pay for goods in this country. I shall not carry on. Perhaps the Minister of State will answer my question.