Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour) | Oireachtas source

I appreciate the Leader making further time available.

In the context of retailers, we are including in the licence the figure which is currently available. It will be stated in the licence that I will determine the figure and that this will not be capable of being altered subsequently by the regulator or anyone else.

I will deal with the issue of the regulator on Committee Stage. I was convinced that we need a regulator. This links to a much broader and important issue which was reflected in all of the contributions made by Senators. I refer to gambling. I seldom have the opportunity to watch television and I usually only get to see it late at night. It is somewhat jarring at that stage of the day to be presented with advertisements for online casinos and God knows what else. There is no proper regulation in this regard and that is why the Minister for Justice and Equality is preparing detailed legislation on gambling. I have had preliminary discussions with him in respect of how the regulator I am establishing might assume, over time, responsibility for the regulation of gambling. This would at least allow us to put some controls in place in the context of how gambling - outside of the very controlled confines relating to the national lottery - operates in this State. Senators will be able to deal with that matter when the legislation on gambling comes before the House.

I wish to deal, in no particular order, with the points that were raised and I ask Senators to accept that I will not be able to deal with everyone's concerns. Senator Quinn referred to good causes and the position online. The Senator has had a distinguished career in the retail industry. Perhaps he saw the retail results announced by Tesco last week and is aware of that company's statement to the effect that it is changing its marketing pattern to allow it to accommodate "destination stores" and focus on online sales. A large percentage of Tesco's business now emanates from the fact that so many customers are shopping online. This will be the position for all of us in the very near future. We already shop online when we purchase airline tickets, etc. It would be impossible to state that the national lottery operator should be prohibited from selling its product in this way, particularly when it is possible to purchase groceries, airline tickets, etc., and renew one's driving licence online. We must be open to developments in this regard.

We are taking a very measured approach to how we sell State assets. The sales that will proceed this year will be those relating to the generating elements of Bord Gáis Energy, BGE, and two foreign assets owned by the ESB, namely, a power station in Spain and a shareholding in another such station in the United Kingdom. I have negotiated with the troika for over two years in order to get us to the point where all of the money from these sales will not be put towards retiring debt but will instead be available to invest in the economy and in job creation. The Government decided last week to transfer the balance of the moneys in the National Pensions Reserve Fund - a matter on which Senator Norris had strong views - into an Irish strategic investment fund in order that we might leverage investment in jobs. God knows we need a robust stimulus in respect of the SME sector, job creation and the construction sector. This is another matter we will be able to debate separately.

I must inform Senator Bacik that during proceedings in the Dáil we added one item to the list of good causes, namely, the natural environment. There was a strong lobby in this regard and I felt it put forward a good case with regard to the natural environment - in the context of the provision of walkways and other things - being added to the list.

It has been stated that we should put in place a dedicated lottery and that the proceeds from this could be used to pay for the construction of the new national children's hospital. It is as if this would not in some way dislodge the spend from the good causes element of the national lottery. Senator O'Donnell and I have different views in respect of this matter. I am being advised on it by a number of experts who are being paid to consider the position with other lotteries across the globe. The advice I have received indicates that if we were to establish a separate and dedicated lottery such as that suggested, this would have the effect of dislodging some of the money relating to the good causes element of the national lottery. There may be those who are of the view that there is another pool of money for gambling out there which is separate to that which relates to the national lottery but I am of the opinion that it would not be good or reasonable to encourage people to gamble even more. In any event, it would not be possible to obtain the funding to build the new national children's hospital now on the basis of the promise that a separate and dedicated lottery would put us in a position to recoup the required amount over a period of years. We want to build the hospital, create jobs and provide facilities as soon as possible. We will have an opportunity to discuss these issues in greater detail at a later date.

I wish to conclude by making a particular observation. Senator Ó Murchú referred to a knee-jerk reaction. The knee relating to this reaction has been jerking since October 2011, which was when I put forward my proposals in respect of this matter. The dedicated team in my Department and the outside experts we have brought in and paid to provide advice have considered the position with regard to the operation of lotteries across the globe. This matter has been debated at Cabinet and in this Chamber. This is the third occasion on which I have been involved in a discussion on it. There are a number of major proposals relating to my sphere of operations but there is none which has been debated as often as the Bill, particularly in this House. The legislation was debate at length by the Dáil and the relevant select committee.

Any proposals one brings forward will always contain flaws. Likewise, there is always a reluctance to move away from the status quo. As Minister with responsibility for reform, I have discovered that everyone is in favour of reform until one puts forward one's proposals. At that point, there is always a compelling reason that we should not make the proposed change. We are all reluctant to face change. If heed had been paid to the arguments put forward when the national lottery was first mooted, then it would never have been established. I am sure there are still people, even in this House, who are of the view that we should not have a national lottery.

I look forward to the debate on Committee Stage and I will do everything possible to make myself available to deal with the points Senators may wish to raise. I will certainly review all of the issues raised during this debate which I have not been able to address. I thank the House for affording me the time to complete my reply.