Paschal Mooney (Fianna Fail) | Oireachtas source

My colleague, Senator Byrne, outlined the party's position, in that we agree in principle with the Government's proposals, and this was also stated during the debate and in the Dáil by Deputy Sean Fleming, our spokesperson in this regard. I will focus on a number of issues relating to establishing the office of a regulator.

According to what I can gather, the regulator, when appointed, will be responsible for very narrowly focused operational activities. He or she will oversee the licence, ensure the national lottery is run with all due propriety, ensure the interests of participants in the national lottery are protected, and ensure the revenue allocated to good causes is as great as possible. I cannot see the justification for the appointment of a regulator. Quite a significant amount of the Bill, including Part 7 in its entirety, is about not only the appointment but also the functions, office and architecture of another quango. Perhaps there are other terms of reference of which the Minister is aware, but based on those I have seen I cannot see why this could not continue to be done, as it is currently, under the aegis of the Minister. Once it leaves the ministerial mandate it will be an arm's length regulator and he or she will make decisions which will impact over the 20 year period. Although it is ring-fenced in legislation, will the regulator have the right to change the 30.6% of proceeds for good causes? Will the regulator be able to tell a future Administration that in light of experience, the operator has decided it cannot possibly get a financial return on the basis of the 30.6% taken from profits and will make a recommendation that it be reduced? If this were within ministerial remit, there would be a very strong political dimension to it.

The Fianna Fáil Administration was probably a past master at establishing arm's length operations, but this does not make it right. Anybody who operates in the public area, be it in the Dáil or Seanad, knows to his or her cost when seeking answers to questions involving a regulator that invariably the Minister sends back a one line reply to say that as it is an operational matter, he or she will send a letter to the regulator or the relevant authority. This is why I have an inbuilt antagonism towards regulatory bodies. In this instance I am concerned because once the Government obtains - I hope - the money it seeks to part fund the children's hospital what will happen over the succeeding period of time? The establishment of a regulatory authority at arm's length from the Government will mean successive Administrations, and ultimately the Irish taxpayer will not be best served.

Will the Minister justify why he believes this is important? I have been told it is because a private company as distinct from An Post may end up with the licence, but this seems to put the cart before the horse. I want to focus on why this particular aspect of the Bill is necessary because it will cost more money at a time when the Government is trying to save every penny and is going around the country trying to get whatever money it can. This will cost more money. There is no indication in the legislation of the specific costs involved. How much will it cost to establish the regulator's office? How many staff will be employed? Will a cap be put on expenditure in the regulator's office? None of this features in the Bill.

I have a great deal of sympathy with Senator O'Donnell's position on this matter. She has argued passionately against it, but we are living in strange and difficult times. If the children's hospital is to go ahead along the lines proposed by the Government, the money will have to be found somewhere. This hospital issue has been dragging on for far too long. There is now a real opportunity that significant sums of money can be raised in a short period which can set this particular process in place. I still remain to be convinced that the hospital will be built on that site because I think there will be problems down the road. Somebody even told me that there is a load of bodies buried under that site, similar to Wood Quay. Historically, there were other institutions on that site so I am waiting to hear on the media that skeletons have been found on the site at St. James's Hospital.