Feargal Quinn (Independent) | Oireachtas source

I welcome the Minister to the House. I am glad he heard Senator Higgins. I am disappointed that the Minister missed hearing the emotion and deep concern of Senator Marie-Louise O'Donnell. She made a wonderful input that I would urge the Minister to look back at because it is not enough to read what she said; one would want to see it as well.

As chairman of An Post at the time we set up the national lottery in 1986, I was involved in its establishment. At that time, one of the concerns about the national lottery that appealed to me was the battle that went on to ensure that the money from the ticket sales did not go into Government funds in order to shore up the deficit. It seems the Government intends to use the national lottery to shore up the deficit to some degree, although the Minister would not agree.

Since the start of the national lottery, approximately €4 billion or one third of all ticket sales has been donated to good causes such as charities, arts projects and community initiatives. I am glad the Government states it intends that the percentage to go towards good causes will be retained at current levels, however I am concerned that this may not be the case. Camelot has been involved in preliminary negotiations. In Britain, it only donates 28% to good causes, which is a much lower figure than here. Surely if it was to come into the Irish market it would want to bring profits for its shareholders up by reducing the funding for good causes in one way or another. I hope the Minister is able to protect us from that.

There is a need for greater transparency in terms of the national lottery. It is well known that some feel aggrieved that their sports club or similar entity has not received funding due to political affiliations or even the type of sport being played at their club. I would like to see the application process conducted online where applicants could see how their application was judged. If the Minister could comment on this sort of increased transparency, it would be good for everybody.

I will read a letter that I received today because it is from somebody who knows something about the national lottery. It states:

The new National Lottery Bill received scant media coverage during the past week. The original idea to sell the Lottery franchise for a twenty year period in return for a lump sum of circa €500/600 million was ill thought out and nonsensical in the first instance. Any prospective Licensee would require an income of around €1200 million, i.e. some €60 million per annum, in order to cover their initial outlay. Currently the only profit in the operation, which is run on a shoestring, is the €2.4 million management fee paid to An Post. The shortfall would, of course, come out of the beneficiary funds. This would probably not have fazed some politicians as it would be a long time before the beneficiaries would notice the impact. The idea of getting an up-front lump of money that didn't have to be repaid was still attractive to Government. However the risk to the potential licensee was still too great and to sweeten the pot it appears that the Minister was persuaded to allow the Lottery to have internet gaming as part of its portfolio. Internet gaming was, as you will know, a complete no-no for both the Government and the An Post National Lottery Company. To now allow a new licensee into that area is scandalous. You will be well aware of the dangers of introducing further readily available gambling opportunities nationwide, particularly through a state supported institution. To do so at any time would be reprehensible, to do so in current economic circumstances is nothing short of criminal.

I read the letter because I think it is worded better than I might have been able to word it. I would like to hear a reply from the Minister on it to see what is the position.

On the problem with online gambling in general, it seems there is substantial room for growth in the national lottery that would be attractive to bidders as it currently earns just 3% of revenue online compared with those in other countries which earn up to 15%. How will this develop and should the company running the national lottery be allowed free reign to advertise when that side of the business develops under the new management?

I understand betting shops, unless there is a horse race, must close at 6.30 p.m. from September until March under a 1931 Act. A 1931 Act forces betting shops to close. How does this interact with online betting that is available 24 hours a day? Although we may not be enthusiastic about gambling, there is something to be said for at least reviewing regulations based on legislation introduced 80 years ago. Overall, we are lagging behind as legislators when it comes to gambling.

I also want to raise the issue of restricting online gambling. While the Bill covers safeguards including strict age-verification systems, it does not go far enough. The EU is looking to protect children and to combat fraud through a draft directive, but I would like us to consider some issues sooner rather than latter.

For instance, given the problems associated with gambling, should gambling companies be allowed to sponsor and advertise wherever they please? I note the difficulty we are having with alcohol and alcohol advertising in sport, but should we be doing something about gambling and gambling companies on the same basis? As we talk of restricting alcohol advertising, why not gambling advertising? Given the problems with gambling that ever more young people face, should the GAA accept sponsorship from gambling companies? Countries such as Germany have increased controls on advertising as well as limiting the amounts customers can gamble, and increased taxes on betting. I believe we should at least be examining Germany's lead on this issue. Could the new operator of the national lottery be compelled to implement some real measures that will help to protect consumers?

I believe the Government has made its decision in this area as to what to do about the national lottery. There are some benefits in this. We all are quite worried about the sale of any State assets on this basis, particularly coming from a Minister with his background, but there are occasions when the sale of State assets makes sense. In this case, Senator Marie-Louise O'Donnell says we are selling the national lottery and others argue that it is only being rented out for 20 years, but I am concerned about encouraging anything that is not in the interests of the community, particularly its younger members.

The other point about gambling, not only online but of any kind, is that one can now gamble on the Internet anywhere and if we pass a law here, we cannot enforce it in Germany, France, Britain or elsewhere. I note that in the case of alcohol advertising rugby's Heineken Cup cannot be called "The Heineken Cup" in France and is called the "H Cup". It is merely a reminder of how difficult it is nowadays to control anything where one has the ability to be able to buy anything one wants online.

This is a debate that should not be curtailed. We need this debate here today and I welcome the opportunity to hear the Minister's views on the points that have been made.