Ruairi Quinn (Dublin South East, Labour) | Oireachtas source

Debate on these issues has featured, as has already been said, on each stage of the Oireachtas consideration of this Bill and I have listened carefully to comments and suggestions about the composition of the new bodies. On Report Stage in the Dáil I introduced a series of amendments in this area. The Bill now provides that the Minister of the day must specify at least one body that is representative of learners and which will have nomination rights to the ETB. It also required ETBs to appoint five members along with the other 16 members, at least one of whom is representative of learners. Where an ETB is centrally focused on adult learning provision, it is free to appoint a second learner representative, but not all VECs will be the same. In establishing the ETBs this is unlikely to change, nor is it desirable that they be shoe-horned into a one-size-fits-all model.

I talked before in this House on the adaptability and the ready response to emerging need which this sector exhibits. It is one of its best qualities. Local needs are, by definition, different. The better approach here is to ensure that learners are represented while allowing ETBs to tailor other aspects of their representation to the communities they serve. We must also achieve this in such a way that the size of the new boards is not unnecessarily large. We have struck the right balance here and I am not inclined to accept amendment No. 3.

On amendment No. 4, the existing legislation provides that two members of VEC will be elected by parents of students in VEC schools or centres for education. In this Bill I propose that the two parent representatives must be parents of ETB students, something that is not a requirement now. These two people will cease to be members if they no longer have a child as a student in an ETB school. They will be appointed through a nomination process involving the recognised national association of parents. The arguments have already been made around the need for there to be local voice of parents on ETBs, people who genuinely represent the needs and concerns of their community and I agree with this. I see the merit in it. To give life to such a commitment, it is vital that parents' representatives continue to have children in the ETB schools. If the person no longer has a child in an ETB facility, an opportunity should be given to another parent, who has such a child, to serve on the board. This is consistent with the approach taken to ETB members who cease to be local authority members or staff with the ETB.

On the question of elections versus nominations, from experience the reality is that elections for parents' representatives have proven to be cumbersome and costly. The total estimated electorate is more than 100,000 people, each of whom must be written to twice under the current arrangements. Participation rates in elections are not high, with an average turnout of 10%. Some VECs have recorded turnouts as low as 1%. While we are moving to a system of nominations we are strengthening the connection of parents with their education and training board, and the local dimension, by ensuring those appointed are parents of children in that ETB and not merely representative of those parents.

I have been anxious not to be prescriptive about how parents are to be nominated because I recognise that there are different approaches to this. If a national association wishes to engage in an election-type process, it is free to do this. The modalities of this, however, should be left to those recognised bodies and for these reasons I do not propose to accept amendment No. 4 in this primary legislation. We have made provision to have representatives of business and the educational stakeholders and we can specify that in the statutory instruments and if there are changes in the landscape or circumstances, they can be changed. To put this into primary legislation would be too restrictive. If one is no longer a member of a local authority one can no longer be a member of an ETB board. If one is no longer a staff member and represent the staff section on the board, one can no longer be on an ETB board.

It would inconsistent if one's right to be a member was as a parent and one's child was no longer in the school to be treated differently from either a local authority or staff member. However, there are two free spaces with only three dedicated to business, learners and educational stakeholders. I am sure, therefore, that someone such as the Senator would be able to display not only his rhetorical skills but his lobbying skills with great effect. I have been amazed by the strength of the enormously small population of County Leitrim in persuading larger congregations of thousands to recognise the quality of the representation from the county. I have no doubt the Senator will find his way on to the relevant board in due course.