Ruairi Quinn (Dublin South East, Labour) | Oireachtas source

I am trying to keep the new boards compact. The number of representatives on the boards has increased to 21 since the Bill was drafted and it will increase to 22 in one case because it takes in County Leitrim. While this is not necessarily a problem, we should not move beyond the current size.

My thinking on the Bill during the debates in the other House was that a parent will, by definition, be a representative of someone in the system who is learning, albeit not directly of learners. I assure the Senator that parents will have a strong interest in this matter. I understand her point about appointing representatives of learners in their own right. To ensure flexibility, we adopted an approach of having the principle enunciated in primary legislation, while using a statutory instrument for the purposes of nominating the bodies that will represent learners. These include the National Adult Literacy Agency, NALA, and AONTAS. Given that a new body may emerge in the next ten or 15 years, it would not be appropriate or constitute good use of parliamentary time to return to the House and change primary legislation to include the name of the new body in the Act. By extension, my proposal in respect of business is similar. A knowledge of business or enterprise is a requirement for nominees and bodies such as IBEC, ISME and local chambers of commerce would be invited to nominate people resident in the relevant area, with the final decision resting with the council. This system would be not unlike the system in place for the Seanad in that nominees would have to come through a panel system.

There is no equivalent of the Union of Students of Ireland for adult learners. The representative bodies which perform a role in respect of adult learners that is similar to the role of the USI are NALA and AONTAS. My concern is that if I increase the number of representatives of learners from one to two, the number of board members will increase from 21 to 22. Someone from NALA or AONTAS who comes through a nominating process will be indirectly accountable. NALA would not be in a position to nominate one person to fill the slot - Senator Wilson raised this issue - but would have to nominate at least two people, at least one of whom would be female. It would then be for the incomplete council, albeit one with a democratic mandate given that it would consist of local councillors, to make the selection.

We are trying to reconcile representation on the one hand with democratic legitimacy on the other and this is what we have come up with.