Feargal Quinn (Independent) | Oireachtas source

While the Minister is welcome, I must admit this is a Bill I support. We should support it and I urge everybody in the House to give it serious consideration.

I have been a Member of the House for 20 years and viewed the very good work done in this Seanad. When we consider the number of times it has corrected and amended legislation, it would be a shame to abolish it.

I do not agree with those who say there have been many calls for abolition. I have not heard any such call. They come out of the blue and they are not right. If anything, this is a power grab by the Dáil to have more authority. We need a second opinion which is essential in respect of any item of legislation. Owing to the current party system, we find ourselves in a situation where the parties elected to the Dáil agree a programme for Government behind the scenes to the extent that individual Members do not have an opportunity to do anything.

I support Senator John Crown in introducing the Bill, a number of aspects of which would bring many benefits to the political system. In response to Senator Cáit Keane and others, if changes take place, we should make sure they are made on Committee Stage. There may be some aspects that could be improved, but if we accept the Bill, it will benefit the political system and our democracy.

What is so good about the legislation is that it will offer citizens a choice which is not a simple "Yes" or "No" to the Seanad but a third choice, one of reform. Senator John Crown has written about the matter this week and what he wrote was very interesting. He wrote, "Senators who vote for the Bill are not necessarily opposing Seanad abolition, rather, they are enhancing the choice facing the citizenry in the referendum." We must remember that fact. As public representatives, Senators are facilitating the ability to make different choices. Surely, that is the very minimum a public representative can do. Many of the proposals in the Bill are the sorts of things people have been calling for. Similar proposals have been made in the recently published document we talked about tonight; open it, do not close it. As Senator Crown says, the process of candidate selection should be democratised and any citizen should be allowed to contest Seanad elections through a process of popular nomination. Candidates will require the signatures of 1,000 citizens on their nomination papers. There has been some criticism of that and, if it is not the correct approach, it can be changed easily on Committee Stage. Candidates would not need the backing of a party and the right to elect candidates to the university panels would be extended to graduates of the University of Limerick, Dublin City University and the institutes of technology.

These are straightforward, sensible proposals within the limits of the Constitution. Voting rights would be extended to allow a wider variety of voices to be heard. Real world opinions and expertise from different voices are exactly what we need, in particular those from the business and voluntary sectors. I have a fear that there are too many voices here that come from limited sectors of society. We need politicians who can see the country from a national point of view. We talk about innovation and the smart economy but elected officials with concrete ideas to improve our society are either stifled by the need to look after local constituents or by the current party-political system. Senator John Crown has often referred to the fact that many Senators refer to "their constituencies" meaning the Dáil constituency in which they live notwithstanding that their Seanad constituency is the panel that elected them. We need representation of communities that are not regionally based. A reformed Seanad could provide for this to an even greater extent in the future. The reforms contained in the Bill would enable the Seanad to fulfil the role envisaged by the designers of the Constitution. The Minister of State, Deputy Jan O'Sullivan, has arrived and is very welcome. It is the second day in a row she has attended. She is getting very fond of us. I wish her party was as fond of us.

The concept of creating panels as conceived on the drafting of the Constitution originally was sound. The mistake that was made was to give the right to elect Members solely to party politicians. It has weakened the system. If Senator John Crown's Bill is passed, it will allow the voices of all citizens to be heard through new voting rights. We must hear the voices of groups, including minorities and the diaspora. The Seanad could be a more gender-balanced Chamber than the Dáil. A reformed Seanad would truly represent our society and be composed of a diverse range of professionals and experts. It would have the ability to more deeply scrutinise and improve legislation. It would be able to reject poor legislation or legislation which improperly encroached on citizens' rights. The public will own the House if it has a vote. A system whereby they would acquire such a vote would work very well. What we set out to achieve in 1937 was not to challenge the Dáil, create a second Dáil or seek further powers. We do not need further powers. The original concept was that the bicameral system was more useful than a unicameral one. It provides a second opinion and view of all legislation as it comes through. It is still the case.

The Seanad provides oversight on every Bill. During my years as a Member, thousands of amendments have been made to numerous Bills in the Seanad. A large number of Bills have been initiated in the House. To abolish the Seanad removes the ability to do that. Many enactments have been improved no end in the Seanad and it would be a great shame to do away with its oversight. We should learn from the mistakes of the Celtic tiger and realise we need more oversight of our systems, not less. It would be a great mistake to do that. The Seanad has been made an easy scapegoat for political parties ahead of a general election. We need a more mature attitude. The Seanad has often been marginalised as successive Governments have wanted to curtail its ability to place a check on the Government. To pander to populism and abolish the Seanad will simply weaken the ability of the Oireachtas to hold the Government to account. We need a reformed alternative. One must not forget that the Seanad has the power to initiate legislation. Senator Bacik referred to my Construction Contracts Bill which we hope will become law next month. It aims to improve conditions for business and subcontractors in general. I think of other Bills as introduced by Senator Bacik and others. They have become law or are becoming law. Whether they are enacted as initiated or changed, we must not forget that Members of the Oireachtas sit as legislators and are not here just to grandstand or gain newspaper column inches. I welcome the provision in the Bill that the Seanad be dissolved at the same time as the Dáil, which makes a great deal of sense.

The Seanad is far from perfect. It should be reformed and modernised, but the current talk of shutting it down is a mere political smokescreen and a distraction from the very real financial and economic difficulties faced by ordinary citizens. The debate on political reform should not be focused entirely on the Seanad but on how the Oireachtas as a whole can be improved and whether Government can be made more accountable and transparent. In general, citizens do not have a right to vote for the Seanad and do not, therefore, feel any ownership of the House. The public will own the Seanad if it has that vote and that voice. I do not seek a stronger Seanad, which I do not consider that we need. I seek a Seanad that will perform better. To do so, the public will have to own it. Senator Crown has shown us one system of ownership for citizens.

Our goal as legislators is to improve the lives of citizens. Removing a layer of protection from citizens by abolishing the Seanad is not the way forward. We need desperately to have greater oversight not less. We must move away from the spin that currently permeates all levels of our political system. Anyone can see that a lack of oversight over Government decisions is a recipe for disaster. Government cannot be free to introduce whatever legislation it likes and expect it to be passed. Having debates on such legislation in the House is well worthwhile. We need a reformed Seanad that can increase the effectiveness of the Oireachtas as a whole. Cross-party support for the Bill would be a great step in the reform process. Merely by passing the Bill, Senators would show that they want to enable the public to have greater choices as to the future of the Seanad. That is particularly pro-democratic. I am glad that a fellow Senator is demonstrating by introducing this Bill that the Seanad is taking the future into its own hands. It is worthy of support. I urge Members to support it. If there are changes to take place, they can be made on Committee Stage. I congratulate Senator Crown for introducing the Bill. Members should ensure that they provide him with the support that he deserves.