Paul Bradford (Fine Gael) | Oireachtas source

I welcome the Minister and the opportunity to say a few words on this legislation. This legislation does not particularly excite me but the Minister's hands are tied in that he must respond to the census results and is constrained as to how many seats can be provided within the population structure. I listened with interest to what Senator Barrett said. He set me thinking and I think we need a much more lengthy and substantial debate on politics and political reform than we are having here. Perhaps that is part of the problem. What we call political reform in this country is usually some daft idea thought up in the midst of a political crisis and written down on the back of an envelope. I look forward to having much more to say in that regard over the next number of months.

What we need is better politics. We can have this debate about bigger or smaller politics and what the public wants. What the public wants and Ireland needs is better politics. Better reform of politics does not come about as a result of a simplistic slogan. What we need in this and the other House is a deep and substantive debate about reforming our political system. Certainly, the Dáil and our constituencies need reform, as do the Seanad and local government. The reform we need in local government is not simply about whether a council electoral area returns five or ten members. It is about the powers of local government and the devolution of power from the national to the local level.

That is what political reform is all about. It does not merely involve simplistic sloganeering.

The Bill relates to the size, scope and scale of Dáil constituencies. A further and fuller debate is obviously required in respect of this matter. I appreciate that the Minister's hands are tied in the context of the constitutional provisions relating to constituencies. However, we must consider alternative electoral systems. In that regard, we must examine the concept of single-seat constituencies. Before my friends in Sinn Féin become too excited, I refer here to Members being elected from single-seat constituencies and their numbers being topped up by means of a list system. This would give rise to absolutely perfect, fair and balanced proportionality in Dáil Éireann, because a party that obtained 10%, 14% or 15% of the vote would win a corresponding number of seats.

There are many ways of ensuring full and proper representation outside our current multi-seat constituency scenario. That scenario and the politics relating to it served the country well for a number of decades but the new challenges we face require the type of politics and politicians that the current electoral system do not necessarily provide. We must examine the electoral system and be somewhat more broad-minded in the context of the types of proportional representation, PR, we believe work. The last Dr. Garrett FitzGerald and, perhaps, Noel Dempsey, the former Minister, were the strongest proponents of single-seat constituencies, with the numbers in the Lower House topped up from a list system. The latter would provide fair and balanced representation. Consideration should certainly be given to this matter.

While the Bill is necessary in the context of the constitutional prerogative that exists, if it is in any way to be a forum for political debate then I hope the Constitutional Convention will be willing to examine the electoral system. I also hope it might come forward with new ideas. If it did so, then during the current Government's term of office we could discuss political reform in its broadest sense. Not just tomorrow night, but also in the course of the coming months, we will be discussing the reform, abolition or whatever of Seanad Éireann. Again, I hope the debate in this regard will be substantive rather than one that involves merely sloganeering.

There has been much discussion regarding the cost of politics. The reduction in the number of Deputies from 166 to 158 will save a certain amount of money. However, let us compare the costs relating to elected Deputies, Senators and councillors against those relating to unelected advisers, who are answerable to no one. Some of the latter can earn at least twice and in some cases almost three times what elected Members of Seanad Éireann are paid, which is about ten times what elected councillors earn. That is a matter upon which we could reflect. In the British House of Commons, parliamentary private secretaries work with Ministers and junior Ministers. These individuals are backbench MPs and they form the first link in the chain between the House of Commons and the British Government. It might be useful to consider introducing a similar structure here.

There is certainly a need for a substantive debate on politics. It must be acknowledged that what the Minister is doing by means of the Bill is something that simply must be done. He has very little discretion in the matter. The Constitutional Convention, the Government and both Houses should commence a mature debate on politics which does not merely involve voting at election time. I hope this subject will invite passion in all of us. Politics is about all the decisions made each day in respect of every citizen of this country. It is a matter of primary importance, and is certainly worthy of a substantive debate rather than just being the subject of people's attention for a few hours every four years.