David Cullinane (Sinn Fein) | Oireachtas source

The Senator's party was in government and had a sizeable number in opposition and if that is the case, it will have to take responsibility as well.

The point is that very bad decisions were made by government but we also had light touch regulation in the banks and across business generally. It strikes me that the very people who argue very robustly for a reduction in the number of Deputies and Senators are the same people who argue for the same light touch regulation to continue. A previous speaker, who is not in the House, so I cannot name him, is one those.

I want to see real and meaningful reform and to see local government reform which is about the delivery of services and ensuring local authorities have the funding and the ability to drive change economically and socially and to have responsibility for health and education. Some local authorities do not even have budgets to fix roads. We are being asked to pay a property tax and a separate water charge. There is no joined up thinking or service provision.

All we are seeing from the Government is a reduction in the numbers. I do believe abolishing the Seanad, reducing the number of Deputies, reducing the number of councillors and doing away with elections for Údarás na Gaeltachta is good for democracy. If this goes ahead and we have no Seanad, fewer Deputies, councillors and county councils and if we reduce the levels of oversight, accountability and transparency in the political system, we will pay a heavy price. There is nothing wrong with having robust Houses of Parliament and elected bodies. That is what democracy is really about, namely, ensuring we have people who can make decisions at national and local levels. All I see from the Government and the Minister, who unfortunately did not stay for the full debate, is cutting numbers to save costs. If the Minister wanted to save costs, he could have abolished any number of allowances which are available to Deputies and Senators, including Whips' allowances and all of those nonsense allowances, and he could have reduced pay.

There is any number of things he could have done to save the same amount of money but without having reduced numbers that will reduce the level of scrutiny and oversight that we need in the State at this time.