Katherine Zappone (Independent) | Oireachtas source

Good morning, Minister. It has been said that there is no legal or moral obligation on Ireland to pay the bank debt. I am not so sure, particularly with regard to the moral obligation. I am sure that we do not know the future. None of us is absolutely certain that the acceptance or rejection of the Bill will bring us what we all hope for. As Senator Darragh O'Brien clearly articulated, we do not know all the details of the deal. I agree that it would be better if we had more time, but we do not.

I would like to ask a few questions which, if answered, will help me and my Independent colleagues to come to a final view on this legislation. Perhaps my first request should be to hear the Minister explain the meaning of the Bill in plainer English. I guess I am wondering what the final outcome for the taxpayer will be if this Bill is passed. Has the Minister calculated how much taxpayers can save? I presume significant savings will accrue if we pass this legislation. The Minister spoke forcefully when he said that one of the main purposes of the Bill is the protection of the national interest. It was heartening to hear. Can he assure the House that he is as certain as he can be that this will be the outcome of the passage of the Bill? Can he say anything more about one of the objectives of this Bill, which is to ensure we move towards finally having a complete separation of bank and sovereign debt?

I very much believe that ultimate separation is absolutely required for our recovery. While I would agree it is time to wind down the IBRC with great awareness of, respect for and concern for the staff and employees - I heard the Minister attend to that in his remarks - my question, which perhaps has to do with the other side of the deal, is where the promissory note is going. I think it is being transformed and I think it is becoming a bond and going to NAMA, but where is it going? In transferring the promissory note to a longer-term bond so that it will be less costly for Ireland to pay its debt, it seems clear, at least from the debate today, that by passing the Bill, while reducing the overall interest payments and the overall amount in terms of interest, we are agreeing to absolutely no more negotiation in terms of any kind of write-down. Is it the case, as they said in the other House, that Ireland intends to pay every last cent of the ¤28 billion?

I have thought a lot about this in the last hour as we were waiting to start the debate. I have several questions in trying to decide to say "Yes" or "No" to the Bill. On the one hand, are we jeopardising the future of our children and youth with too much debt for at least a generation by locking ourselves into not obtaining a write-down? On the other hand, would we be jeopardising the present of our children and youth by doing something that lost the confidence of Europe and the international markets, causing our recovery to recede? I will listen carefully to the Minister's response. I want to support the Bill and I know some of my questions are shared by my Independent colleagues.