Seanad debates

Wednesday, 6 February 2013

Defence Forces (Second World War Amnesty and Immunity) Bill 2012: Second Stage (Resumed)

 

2:35 pm

Photo of Alan ShatterAlan Shatter (Dublin South, Fine Gael) | Oireachtas source

I will begin by thanking speakers on all sides for their very generous support for the Bill and the comments they have made. This is an important piece of legislation. I am very conscious that the vast majority of individuals whom it addresses have now passed on. It has relevance for their families - their children and grandchildren - because it recognises the fact that they did something to the benefit of this State by participating in the Second World War. Senator Mooney made a very interesting point when he made reference to other states that declared their neutrality during the Second World War and promptly found themselves invaded by Germany. None of us should be naïve about that particular matter. It is something that if said from this position some years ago would have been a great cause of controversy but I suspect it is nothing other than reality now. If the Battle of Britain had been lost and Germany had invaded Great Britain, this island was next and our neutrality would have provided us with no protection in that context. That was the lesson the neutral states in Europe learned at a very high cost.

A very personal aspect of that to me is a map prepared in 1941 which detailed the proposed liquidation of Jewish communities across Europe. A copy of that map exists in Yad Vashem, the Holocaust memorial centre in Jerusalem. What is interesting about that map is that it contains details of the estimated numbers of Jews in every European country designated for extermination. The number of Jews in Ireland was not left out. The number designated for extermination in Ireland on that map was 4,500, which is very close to the actual numbers in the Irish Jewish community. That was a map put together by Adolf Eichmann as part of the planned liquidation of Jews in Europe and one can be pretty certain the accurate inclusion of the Irish Jewish community in terms of its numbers was not just an idle addition.

As Minister for Defence, I am very conscious of the importance of discipline within our Defence Forces, the importance of the command structure applying and the importance of individual members of the Defence Forces not making individualised decisions and failing to do their duty. It is of as much importance to the State domestically that the Defence Forces do their duty today as it was at the time of what Senator Bradford referred to as the Emergency. It is important that they do their duty and obey orders when on UN peacekeeping missions as we have people around the world and it is important for their safety that they do that. However, these were exceptional times and individuals made what must have been for them extraordinarily difficult decisions. They placed their lives at risk and a significant number of them died. In the context of the figures given by Senator Mooney, we do not know how many of those who died simply joined the Allied Forces or deserted the Irish Army and then joined the Allied Forces. However, they lost their lives and in doing so, they assisted in the Allied victory and indirectly assisted in protecting the sovereignty and independence of this State. It is appropriate at this historical juncture that we recognise that. In this new world in which we live, it is appropriate that we recognise the extent of the connectivity between the islands of Ireland and Great Britain and the extent to which the lives of people on this island and neighbouring ones have interacted and the contribution made by those both North and South to the Allied side during the Second World War.

I very much appreciate the support expressed by Members of this House and the fact that some of them, including Senator Mary Ann O'Brien, are on record expressing views with which I agree on this particular issue. I appreciate that this measure, as do all measures coming before this House, has the full support of my Cabinet colleagues. We are making a small bit of history with this Bill in the context of reconciling the two islands and acknowledging that people who have been hidden in the shadows of the history of this island should be acknowledged and recognised and that a tribute should be paid to the role they played in years gone by. Senator Cullinane is right in saying that we need to be vigilant about the rise of fascism.

I do not believe any of us envisages, in the short term, the rise of another government in Europe dominated by fascists. However, there is certainly a small number of people in public life and the political system across Europe who are prepared to express particular views and resort to racism and anti-Semitism in seeking personal, political publicity and electoral support. This is something of which we, as Europeans, must be conscious. It is an issue I discussed at the first informal meeting of European Justice Ministers held in Dublin Castle two weeks ago. More needs to be done to ensure that not only will we continue to be vigilant in our commitment to protecting human rights and the ethos and democratic principles of Europe but also that we will unite to make certain there will not be a growth in racism, anti-Semitism and the attitudes which led to the disaster of Nazi Germany in the 1930s and gave rise to a greater disaster across the Continent.

For some reason, I seem to keep returning to the points raised by Senator Paschal Mooney. I am going to have to stop talking about the Senator who made reference-----

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