David Norris (Independent) | Oireachtas source

I move:

That Seanad Éireann hereby declares that the Order of Business of Seanad Éireann, save in exceptional circumstances, shall take precedence over other business of the Oireachtas and that consequently Senators shall not attend meetings of Committees of the Oireachtas until the Order of Business is concluded in the House.

I welcome the opportunity to discuss this motion which states that Seanad Éireann hereby declares that the Order of Business of Seanad Éireann, save in exceptional circumstances, shall take precedence over other business of the Oireachtas and that consequently Senators shall not attend meetings of committees of the Oireachtas until the Order of Business is concluded in the House. This can be seen as largely a technical motion and five minutes for each of us is probably sufficient. It is a technical motion but it goes to the heart of our democracy and of the respect in which this Chamber is held. I say that having spent a continuous 25 years here and having seen the proliferation of committees. They deal with this matter in a variety of ways but over quite a number of years I have continued to raise this matter. If I may I will give a couple of examples.

What has happened in the past has been that the other House was facilitated all the time and arrangements made so that there should be no conflict with important significant business of Dáil Éireann and that is appropriate. They also make arrangements that Ministers who are speaking to committees and Members of the Dáil be allowed to leave to take part in a vote. Often, particularly if a Minister is involved, the operations of the committees are suspended. No such courtesy has been traditionally afforded to the Seanad. I have had to raise the issue on a number of occasions where I have been attending committees. In the past I was a prominent member of two committees which met with considerable regularity and I had a very good track record, as most of my colleagues did. We frequently found that, for example, the Order of Business was at 10.30 a.m. and the committee was scheduled to meet at 10.30 a.m. but if we protested it might be moved to 10 a.m. which made no difference because we had scarcely got through the reading of the minutes and matters arising and even a starting time of 9.30 a.m. was not much use. Other days, such as Mondays and Fridays, were, perhaps understandably, excluded from the rota because they would inconvenience party members who wanted to be in their constituencies.

Another series of matters needs to be examined. The Seanad is required to take a role in these committees. During my parliamentary career the number of committees has increased dramatically and the activities have increased. It is not the fault of the Seanad if, for example, there are not sufficient rooms or appropriate places available for committees - that is a question that should be dealt with by the Oireachtas commission. However, we are required to be there because the committee cannot be quoried without a Member of the Seanad and this can cause difficulties. For many years I have facilitated them and I found I was running from one place to another and back down and not getting either piece of work done properly.

I will take two examples from 2006. The first is 27 June 2006 where Mr. Tom Hyland who played such a significant role and with whom I co-operated, and this House played a very valuable role, in assisting the oppressed people of East Timor. We discussed this in the Joint Committee on Foreign Affairs and Mr. Tom Hyland, who is not only a colleague of mine but a old personal friend whom I had not seen for some time, was making a very important submission and I was asked to speak. The Chairman facilitated me by allowing me to be the first speaker even though I was not part of the party rota. I am grateful for that and most of the time the Chairman and the staff would attempt to facilitate us. It is not individuals who are wrong, it is the system. However, I have to say this. I appreciate the Chairman's graciousness in allowing me to contribute first. I accept that we all have difficulties with regard to speaking on the Order of Business. I am sure the Chairman and committee officials will try to ensure the Seanad is not disadvantaged. I apologised to Mr. Hyland for having to leave to attend the Order of Business before I could hear his reply with which I would catch up in the published report. I had to be discourteous. I did not hear his reply. I did not get an opportunity to return to the committee and to contribute in a dynamic way to that debate which is part of my central political concerns because I felt my first obligation was to the Seanad.

The second example, which is one of many, was on the Order of Business on 3 October 2006. I said:

It is ironic that the House?s consideration of the Road Traffic and Transport Bill 2006 coincides, as I understand it, with a meeting of the Joint Committee on Transport. It is a pity that Members are disadvantaged by not being able to be part of the deliberations of that committee. Meetings of that committee are often scheduled to coincide with the Order of Business in this House. There should be a rebellion ? Senators should make it clear that they will not attend unless this matter is examined and rectified.