Deirdre Clune (Fine Gael) | Oireachtas source

This is a very sensitive issue. I understand that individuals have personal views and experiences. Childbirth and pregnancy are wonderful experiences but they throw up some difficult and tragic situations. Each and everyone knows of incidents that have been highlighted in both Houses.

I am glad that the Minister is clear on the commitment of Government to act on the recommendations of the expert group. I thank the expert group for their clear report. It sets out the background as to why we are in the current situation and the options to move forward.

It sets out in paragraph 4. 7 the implications of the State's obligations on the judgement in the A, B and C case v. Ireland. We are considering the C case. I now quote:

Arising from the judgment, Ireland is under a legal obligation to put in place and implement a legislative or regulatory regime providing effective and accessible procedures whereby pregnant women can establish whether or not they are entitled to a lawful abortion in accordance with Article 40.3.3° of the Constitution as interpreted by the Supreme Court in the X case, and, by necessary implication, access to abortion services in the State. It would obviously be insufficient for the State to interpret the Court?s judgment as requiring only a procedure to establish entitlement to termination without also giving access to such necessary treatment.

The Court noted that since the X case, no criteria or procedures have been subsequently laid down in Irish law, whether in legislation, case law or otherwise by which that risk to a woman?s life is to be measured or determined, leading to uncertainty as to its precise application.

We are at that point today. It further states:

The European Convention for the Protection of Human Rights and Fundamental Freedoms is an international agreement which Ireland has signed and ratified and which is consequently legally binding upon Ireland.

We have a legal obligation and a duty to comply with the judgments of the European Court of Human Rights which is an integral part of the convention. We need to examine its recommendations and ensure we comply with them.

Many clear options have been outlined in the report of the expert group and the Government will make a decision shortly on how it will proceed. A combination of legislation and regulations seems to be the way forward if we are to balance the advantages and disadvantages. The report also outlines clear options for implementation, decisions on entitlements and review procedures. It is clearly laid out. It deals with many of the difficult medical and legal decisions that have to be made. Many of us are not equipped to deal with such matters. The capacity and the structures are in place to spell out how we can move forward in this area.

The issue of suicide has been raised and seems to be a difficult one for many. A recent letter in The Irish Timeswhich was signed by eight psychiatrists referred to international documented research and findings in this area. It read, "There is no evidence that women post-abortion are at an increased risk of suicide ... but there is evidence that suicide is associated with unwanted pregnancies in countries where abortion is not available". I know we can make arguments on the other side also. While we can have our opinions on the issue of suicide, I do not think any of us is equipped to make decisions or adjudicate. I am very uncomfortable with the language used in this debate. In many ways, women are deemed to be second-class citizens. There is a suggestion women who are pregnant and suicidal are not to be believed. That is not right and I do not want us to attempt to provide for this in legislation. When we attempted to do so in the Constitution on two occasions, the people in their wisdom rejected it.

I am glad that we have reached this point. We have a clear document that shows us how we can move forward and I look forward to the Government's decision. We will have an opportunity to listen to various interest groups on the issue when the Joint Committee on Health and Children holds its hearings early in the new year. When legislation is introduced, Members of both Houses will be able to deal with an issue that has been hanging around for too long. I have spoken to many people who want us to get on with it by legislating and putting structures in place that will allow an abortion to be performed if the mother's life is at risk. Nobody wants to see abortion on demand. I lived in the United Kingdom over 20 years ago and had my first child there. I certainly do not want that country's type of abortion regime to be implemented here. The UK legislation was established on the basis of mental health, rather than the risk of suicide, which is what we are talking about here. The two are completely different and cannot be compared. We have a roadmap that will allow us to move forward in a sensitive manner. If we are to respect women as individuals, we should not assume that those who say they are suicidal are using it as a cover to have an abortion. It is insulting and degrading to women to disbelieve them in such a way.