Sean Barrett (Independent) | Oireachtas source

I welcome the Bill and the spirit in which the House has approached it. This is when the Seanad is at its best. One wonders what the view will be when the Minister of State, Deputy O'Dowd, is next discussing with Niall O'Dowd what it would have been like in Ireland if Ian Paisley had retired at 65. We only saw the best of him afterwards when there was peace on the island. The later retirement age for the Reverend Ian Paisley was of great benefit to everyone on the island and great credit is due to everyone who facilitated that process. I would hate to think what he would have been like if he had retired at 65 with the work undone.

I recall Frank O'Reilly and Mr. Justice Henry Barron adjudicating on student cases in Trinity College Dublin. Both were 75 years of age when they visited the college but no one ever said they had lost the run of themselves. The very old and the very young have a good deal in common: the enemy group in the middle. The old and young get on well together and it can be a stimulating relationship. The current target is for 70% of people to go on to third level education, and if they live until 80 years of age instead of three score and ten, there will be a considerable cost. Part of this can be alleviated by allowing those who wish to stay on to do so, so that they can continue to contribute. Part of the IMF programme here is to raise the retirement age. The retired bankers are certainly convinced that the Government would be ¤64 billion better off if they were still running the banks. After they were compulsorily retired, a far lesser breed took over and bankrupted themselves and the country. I recall some people coming to Trinity College in their 90s, including A. A. Luce. Alfred Kahn, the leading airline deregulator in the Unites States, was still fulminating against airline cartels when he was 88 years of age. Lawyers mature with age, as do general practitioners and people working in shops.

There will be a different job for human resource departments to do in future, but that is a good thing. It is about time human resources departments did something useful in all aspects instead of waffling, which is what I usually identify them as doing. The culture of work could change and we could see it as a joint effort between generations.

The Minister for Justice and Equality referred to the Donnellan case. I thought that was a bizarre judgment on policing. There are young policemen running around after criminals, using all of the intelligence available. As per normal, I presume the judge who gave the judgment for early retirement was older than the policeman in question.

Would such a provision interfere with the rights of employers? Yes, it probably would, but we have been doing that anyway. One cannot sent children down coalmines or up chimneys or tell married women to retire. I do not mind at all if we interfere with the rights of employers. They should cultivate better relationships with their employees and, as Senator Quinn noted, appreciate the good ones.

The Court of Justice of the European Union may provide guidance on the approach to be adopted by national courts in considering national and EU legislation. The alternative is for judges to tell us to legislate. Everyone in the House will do so when this Bill gets going but we can also tell the judges how we want policy to be. It seems the whole drift of this discussion is towards inclusiveness, a goal of the President, and a more flexible labour market for those who want to work.

I have seen people almost disintegrate upon their so-called retirement. Unintentionally, one may have wished Tom all the best in his few remaining years and only then did poor Tom begin to shake because he realised that he was about to be put on the scrap heap. We must ensure we do not do this to people. I thank the Minister of State, Deputy O'Dowd, and the Minister for Justice and Equality. There is an openness to this motion and it is a wonderful motion, ably seconded by Senator Crown. It will be on our agenda for some time ahead.