Brian Hayes (Dublin South West, Fine Gael) | Oireachtas source

It has been done with the support of Fianna Fáil.

On the question Senator Harte asked about the Credit Review Office, I agree we need to do more but some very important things are happening in the micro-finance area. I have seen cases in my constituency of people who could not get money from the banks obtaining micro-funding for very small businesses. The temporary loan guarantees are being rolled out and the big idea is that the State would act as guarantor to help businesses get funds in place. The pillar banks have been told by the Government that over a three-year period they must invest ¤21 billion in Irish businesses, big and small.

People say to me - I know that Senator Higgins made the point and I shall return to her - that a lot of that money is not going to SMEs but to restructure existing businesses. Without restructuring, those businesses would be dead and gone. I have continually made the point that this is not just about creating jobs but protecting the 1.8 million people who are in work. We want to make sure they are protected too. A lot of the funding provided by the pillar banks relates to the restructuring of existing loans from existing viable businesses but that fact is frequently ignored.

I note the comment made by my colleague from Galway, Senator Ó Clochartaigh. He mentioned the industrial policy proposed by our colleagues in Sinn Féin and that he had not seen our pre-budget submission. We have not seen his party's pre-budget submission but we shall be all ears when it comes out. As last year Sinn Féin produced it 12 hours before the budget, I ask his party to give it to us a few days earlier. We are prepared to examine any positive and realistic proposals made by Opposition parties.

Senator Brennan referred to NAMA and he made an important point. NAMA has said that it is prepared to invest over ¤2 billion in investment projects through viable businesses that it is working its way through. That could be a source of additional employment across the country, particularly outside Dublin, and the Government would welcome the measure. I can assure the Senator that the only assets that will be sold are non-strategic State assets. We have no intention of selling strategic State assets.

I agree with Senator Higgins that we need a new SME lending culture, not just by the pillar banks but niche banks. The Minister for Finance holds the view that the more banks the merrier but it is difficult to get them. There is an opportunity to start Islamic banking which has been successful in the UK. I understand that 40,000 people who have come to this country in the past decade bank with the Islamic bank in the UK and they are all involved in small business. They can see that there is a future for a niche banking market and we need to get into that space. The Government will closely examine any proposals that it receives. There is nothing to prevent such banks being established in Ireland. Our difficulty is the sovereign risk and threat which makes it more difficult to get the funds in to match it.

I hope that I have replied to everyone and I thank Senators for their suggestions. We have made it clear that the forthcoming budget will be difficult. If we can get through it and there is a sustained path towards economic growth then that will help the economy to recover and get people back to work. There is always a lag between a turn in the economy and improved employment opportunities. Traditionally, that has been the case. Our primary objective is to get as many people back to work and to create the right conditions so that investment can come in. I shall outline one case. Recently, I met a man from my constituency and I asked him how he was doing. He said that his business was gone and that he had employed 45 people at one point. He said that he is back on his feet again because he is selling carpets in London. He employs three people there but he hopes to return to selling carpets here by the middle of next year. He said that the one big difference between the 1980s and now is that there are a lot of people like him who know how to make money. When we get back on our feet again we will make money again. An entrepreneurial spirit did not exist in the 1980s but it does now. I have every confidence that if we get the banking sector right, get the general position of the economy right in terms of the deficit and get our competitiveness and pricing right then those people who have made money - the people who created employment opportunities for so many people in the past decade and a half - will be back on their feet and will ensure that the economy is a success.