Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour) | Oireachtas source

During the years of the Celtic tiger it rose from 200,000 to 300,000. We could all work out different elements of the explanation and, when people talk about reform, it is a significant number.

Senator van Turnhout referred to children. The worst poverty outcome for children is to be in jobless households. The most important thing for a child to be successful, in terms of being financially independent and self-sustaining, is that the child is in a household where there is some work. The worst outcomes for children are in jobless households and, unfortunately in terms of our problem at the moment, we have many jobless households. In terms of any reform programme, the employment situation, which was referred to by many Senators, is absolutely vital.

Members asked questions about carers, the half-rate carer's allowance and delays. The delays occur because of the enormous volume of applications. There are 52,000 people in receipt of a carer's allowance, which is an enormous increase on the position a number of years ago. Some 22,000 of those people receive the half rate carer's allowance. In the budget strategy and the budget outcome last year, the carer's allowance was protected because carers are providing full-time care and are doing a very important job. It is a priority of the Government to acknowledge it, recognise it and support it in terms of income.

Senator Norris asked whether the carer's allowance could be extended and whether fuel allowances could be frontloaded to allow people to buy oil in bulk. We have a winter fuel allowance for five months. We do not have the capacity to prepay. It is possibly not the best idea in all circumstances. Senator Norris referred to people getting a fill of oil but most oil suppliers will accept a weekly or monthly budget plan. I would be wary of handing out the money in one lump sum. The experience of the Department in large lump sum handouts is not universally great. In some cases, the money might not be directed to the purpose for which it is intended. We need to study Senator Norris's proposal very carefully.

Senators Thomas Byrne and John Kelly referred to delays in applications for carer's allowance. The problem is the numbers. We are changing the computer systems. Many of the computer processes in the Department go back to the 1980s, when they were top of the range, but it is several decades later and they need to be substantially overhauled. One of the things I regret about the boom period is that more was not done to update the ICT systems. It is a slow process that is under way. Senators will find that, in the case of invalidity, there is a significant advance in completing the new systems. Current applications are being dealt with much more quickly. I meet regularly with officials with a view to prioritising the clearance of the backlog.

Senator Mullins referred to the abuse of the free travel pass and suggested a charge for the travel pass and getting holders to register every year to confirm an entitlement. The number in receipt of a travel pass has increased and it is a significant issue. Some 750,000 pensioners and those with a disability have a free travel pass but there are another 300,000 companion passes. There is a concern among a number of operators that some people are using the pass even though they are not entitled to it. Our pensioners are not the problem in respect of the travel pass. The review group was brought together to examine the matter.

This year, we have produced 40,000 PPS cards with photographic identity. This will be rolled out next year and it will greatly help in cutting out abuse. It is important because people next door and up and down the road are aware of abuse and they are consenting, as taxpayers, to pay for a good social welfare system but they are not consenting to people who abuse it. I was in the Seanad Chamber last year and I asked for powers for social welfare inspectors to ask questions at the airport of people coming in and out. Those powers are being significantly used and a number of prosecutions have taken place.

Members have asked about not having cuts to certain areas but no decisions have been made on the budget. The Department must find savings of over ¤500 million. We will do so in the best way possible but the best way is to get more people back to work. At that point, the cost to the State decreases by at least ¤200 per week and maybe more and the person gradually pays tax, pays PRSI and purchases more. We rebalance the system by getting people back to work.

The social welfare appeals office is independent of the social welfare offices. Many people, including Senator Kelly, do not feel that is the case but it is independent. I will convey what has been said here to the people in the social welfare appeals office.

Senator Van Turnhout and others raised the question of child benefit. I have spoken here before on this. One of our problems is that at the moment minimum direct cash payments to a family completely dependent on social welfare amount to ¤30 per week in direct payment for a qualified child and ¤140 per month in child benefit. That is equivalent to ¤65 per week per child. It is a significant amount.

Are there better ways to target that? That is the issue. Could there be a universal payment at a high level that retains the principle of universality, which is of benefit to women in particular? I certainly benefited from it, as did many of the other women here. Perhaps some of the men did but it generally goes to the caring parent, the mother. What would be a better way than a universal payment at a certain level and then targeting the balance?

In Finland, when the banking system collapsed, the Finnish Government decided it needed to invest in education and started with pre-school. If we could have more pre-school and after-school care, although we would not get it immediately on the Finnish scale, it would pay a dividend throughout the school system. The late Brian Lenihan converted the early childhood payment into a free year of child care, which saved about half the amount and I can see the benefit of that scheme every day. I see children gaining from it and parents broadly approving of it.

We could do more there. The Department spends ¤35 million on the hot meals schemes in disadvantaged schools. That is some of the best spent money by the Department and I would love to see that service expanded. A child who comes into school may not suffer from a lack of money in the home but a lack of organisation. There could be parental disorganisation or failure. Not everyone is up to speed. Children come into school and if they can sit down to a hot meal in a social space with their friends before the start of the school day, it is a great addition.