Tony Mulcahy (Fine Gael) | Oireachtas source

Although it sits uneasily with me, I cannot but fully support the motion. Perhaps I cannot support it in its entirety but I can empathise with the proposers of the motion. When we table amendments, I wonder whether we examine what we are writing and how we are presenting it. To give the impression that we have matters under control in the delivery of services in palliative care or disability is a complete misrepresentation. We are not quite there yet. The value for money report is the key to many of the questions asked. My views on this area have been very well expressed and I also communicated them to the Minister of State in conversation. The quicker we get to a model whereby the money follows the patient, the better. That is the only line in the reply that interests me.

Two weeks ago, the Rehab care awards were broadcast on television. At the end of the night, the CEO made the final presentation and my stomach nearly turned. When we are looking at people drawing salaries in excess of ¤300,000, we have a problem. We justify it by our presence. One can name any of the disability services organisations. Some of them operate on very limited budgets but I have attended presentations in the audiovisual room in Leinster House and when I see a CEO, I am looking at ¤125,000. The quickest thing we could do is to implement the value for money report and apply the principle that the money follows the client. The client can determine how to get the services and who is delivering the services.

We must also consider the representative bodies who purport to represent the needs of those with intellectual disabilities and other disabilities. I am talking about the representative bodies, not those who deliver services. We should immediately stop all funding to representative bodies as we did with the People with Disabilities in Ireland, PwDI, and transfer the money to service delivery. The money should follow the client so that the client can buy the service. I do not need any representative group to represent me or my child, nor do many other people, but we do need a service. I do not need a CEO to be paid ¤300,000. If the Jack and Jill Children's Foundation had that lump of money tomorrow morning, it would make good use of it judging by what the organisation delivers from its budget. The same is true of many service providers within the HSE.

I was at a meeting in Limerick six or seven years ago and spoke to a finance officer who told me she gave a cheque to the Daughters of Charity, the Brothers of Charity and Enable Ireland for ¤74 million. She did not even receive a set of accounts for that sum and had no control over where the money went. The sum of ¤74 million was for services in Clare, Limerick and Tipperary. She did not know what the organisations wanted to do with it. That has changed but not to the extent we want. If we could make the determination on where the money was spent, I am sure the Minister of State would be inundated with people seeking a service because they would recognise the quality of the service.

The Minister of State has done much work and I trust her implicitly to deliver it. The Minister of State knows my form on this topic. We need to get to this new model immediately. In fairness to the Brothers of Charity, it tried to stop paying increments to staff. The matter was taken to the Labour Court and to the High Court. It was determined that because the organisation received funding from the Government, it was covered by the Croke Park agreement. I do not generally have a problem with the Croke Park agreement because it provides service delivery. When we hand over State money to private bodies, they are covered by the Croke Park agreement as a result of receiving that money. The organisation was doing the right thing. Let us not get mixed up by the charitable status because the organisations are damn well paid for the job they do. Voluntary body service providers are not voluntary, they are damn well paid. The quicker we get the money to follow the client, the quicker we will get a value for money service. We will get more respite hours, more palliative care and better quality support for our children and the next generation.