Mark Daly (Fianna Fail) | Oireachtas source

I welcome the Minister of State to the House.

In the first instance, this process lacks the openness and transparency we would wish for in the establishment of Irish Water. There was a bypassing of the Oireachtas in terms of detail and there is obvious confusion in Cabinet about certain issues relating to charging for the water supply. Much effort has been made to establish when this project will go live. Recent reports mention 2016. Given that Irish Water was created in a rush, its detail has been far from clear and its costing has the potential to be way out of line. That is not the fault of the Minister of State but when one is going to do something one needs to have all the ducks in a row. There have been contradictory statements. The IMF sought a water charge and Fianna Fáil is putting together its own proposal in this regard. However, when a body was established without tendering, openness or transparency and given automatically to Bord Gáis, for whatever reasons, it does not inspire confidence. How much will this cost? There is talk of establishing water meters throughout the country, which may cost ¤300 million or ¤500 million, a cost ultimately borne by the consumer. There is a lack of clarity about this. We are aware, as the county manager in the city of Dublin stated, that one in three household units in Dublin cannot be metered. Apartment blocks and older houses will have issues in this regard. This is the largest urban area but two-thirds of the people there will pay and one third will not. Obviously, that will affect the figures, meaning that those who pay are supplementing those who will not. There is also the issue of job losses. The consultant PricewaterhouseCoopers stated that the future of the 4,278 people who are currently employed throughout the country in the 34 local authorities is in doubt. How will this be managed? Will these people be on the same pay and conditions if they are employed by Irish Water? These are all matters that lack clarity.

There was an announcement that the body was to be established, but we did not and still do not have the detail. It is said the first water bills will issue by the end of 2013. These reports continue but only now are we talking about who will pay for the meters. There was confusion in Government about this. When one announces something that does not contain much detail, the limited detail there is on issues about which people are concerned should at least be correct. On 15 April the Taoiseach stated there would be no installation charge, only the cost of the actual meter. On the same day an official from the Department of the Environment, Community and Local Government stated that the cost of buying and installing the meter would be passed on to the householder, not paid by the Exchequer. The Tánaiste, Deputy Eamon Gilmore, stated no decision had been made on how water meters would be paid for. That was all in one day. The following day was no better. The Taoiseach stated there would be no charge for installation and the Government set up an implementation group. The Minister for Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation, Deputy Bruton, stated that the Government was awaiting proposals on the meters and the Minister for Finance, Deputy Michael Noonan, declared he saw meters as a friend of the householder and of business in that they will prevent waste. That is correct - they will prevent waste - but what he did not say was who would pay for them. These statements issued one day after the other.

I remind my Labour Party colleagues that according to its manifesto of 2011 their party does not favour water charges. The Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform, Deputy Brendan Howlin, stated on 18 February 2011 that he was against water charging and that water was a necessity. I can agree with the second comment but the first was stated also by the Tánaiste in The Irish Times on 28 June 2010. That is merely an example of the lack of clarity, at a time when households are concerned about a proposed property tax. Moody's issued a report today stating that one in five mortgage holders will be in default, not just in arrears, this time next year. Lack of clarity is adding to the weight of trouble, as is the lack of transparency in the establishment of the body. We have set up another quango, and although my understanding was that we were trying to get rid of them under the programme for Government, this does not seem to be the case.

I realise the Minister of State may have to come back to me on my final question, which is about water fluoridation, as raised by a number of people. Is the Government going to examine this issue in regard to the new system of Irish Water? A number of European countries, after research and examination, decided they would no longer put fluoride into water because they had concerns about it. Some American states have banned water fluoridation but we are still doing it. In a time of renewal and review, when we are changing the way we supply water and how it is provided, is there a proposal by Irish Water to consider this issue? There is a cost involved in putting fluoride into water - does it really benefit the health of the nation? There are people who have concerns that it does not do so and is actually detrimental to health. Will Irish Water in its overall review ask this fundamental question? When it supplies water, how will it do so, what is it treating it with and is this the right thing to do and the best practice going forward?

I have left some questions there for the Minister of State. The Minister for Transport, Tourism and Sport, Deputy Leo Varadkar, stated on "The Week in Politics" that some 20% of older houses and apartments would not be able to pay for meters in the normal way. That affects the budgeting for Irish Water and how it will run its system. If one in five houses throughout the country cannot be metered, how is it possible to supply water to these houses in a fair and equitable way? Will they have a standard charge? I presume that will happen but how will that be set as a benchmark so that those who have to pay for metered water do not feel that the guy down the road is paying a flat charge of ¤100 while they may have to pay the same amount per month?

The lack of clarity is the biggest problem. I do not blame the Minister of State for this. When the system was announced, much more thought should have been put into what was to be done or not to be done. One would hope that in a new Government, promises of a new way of governing would be fulfilled and that we would stop building quangos. The new empire of Irish Water was simply announced and then basically told to go away and get on with it. Then, when it does things the Government does not like, it is blamed. That is not good government. We should take control of Irish Water and manage it. We should have insisted we know everything about what it is to do before launching it. I am concerned that we will not meet the timeframes as outlined, that the figures relating to its establishment are too low, that the costs of running it are underestimated and, ultimately, that the users of the service, the citizens of Ireland, will not be served by the process of its establishment.

Another concern is that the Government estimated that 1.05 million households were on public water supplies out of a total of 1.3 million. This was about 40,000 off target based on the 2011 census figures. If the figure for the number of households is out by thousands, and if we are saying we are down ¤250 a year per household based on that, we are talking about billions of euro if we start calculating from figures that should have been right from day one when Irish Water was being established. If these are not right, all the figures will be off and politicians will be left carrying the can for Irish Water, which can say the Government gave it the wrong figures at the outset and as a result it has to charge more for metering. This should have been a matter of Government policy. Installation is the responsibility of Irish Water and it should have been clarified at the outset whether there was to be a monthly charge for metering. That was a fundamental issue. Should it not have been clarified at the outset? We have now given the decision to Irish Water and the Government will have to deal with the political consequences. The Government should have decided whether Irish Water would supply the meters, pay for their installation and charge for the water in a fair and equitable manner, but now we have another quango deciding how much it should cost. We are commissioning out responsibility to quangos, which is not the way we should do Government business. It appears we want to put it at arm's length and not make decisions on basic issues such as the meter, its installation and how the price will be set. We are allowing the energy regulator to set the price, and we have all seen that when the energy regulator sets the price it keeps increasing without any control. That is not a good way for this new water authority to be established, and abdicating responsibility to a quango is not the way to do the business of government.