Sean Barrett (Independent)

I certainly do not wish to interfere with the timetable.

I thank the Minister for his response. I hope copies of his speech will be circulated as a bulwark against the bureaucratic menace we have discussed. In regard to the Higher Education Authority, it is not long since an bord snip nua recommended its abolition, yet it is now assuming new powers which will see it supervising a university that has been awarding degrees of international standing for the past 400 years. We should bear in mind that such fashions in bureaucracy come and go.

I thank the Minister for considering the points made my Senator John Crown and me. Being mindful of the time, I do not propose to press amendments Nos. 1 to 3, inclusive. However, it is important to remember that in a country with real problems - the Minister has been particularly prominent in raising these problems in public media - we must be careful not to invent artificial problems with expensive solutions. From my experience and based on what external examiners are telling us, there simply is not a problem with the quality of lecturing to the degree suggested in some quarters. In a time of limited resources, the focus should be on the classroom rather than bureaucracy. We seem to be losing sight of the reality that the role of the universities is primarily to cherish and educate 18 to 23 year olds. Seeking to establish a branch of IDA Ireland in the education sector represents a mistaken allocation of resources. The people in the lecture room are usually at the low end of the budget in terms of remuneration, while the individuals observing them and issuing reports on their performance are often on salaries twice or three times as large. This was reflected in the Comptroller and Auditor General's report on top level management which made particular reference to the 13 vice presidents of universities. The way to obtain these positions is to get out of the lecture hall. Resources should primarily be put into teaching itself. The type of supervision proposed by some is often demonstrably unnecessary, expensive, wasteful of resources and tending largely to interfere with the job of education in the classroom.