David Cullinane (Sinn Fein)

The motion tabled by Sinn Féin is fair and measured. It calls on the Government to take a number of actions which we believe would improve the current situation. The Minister's contribution was far from fair and measured, however. She made what was in effect a political statement, which is not helpful. She made a number of arguments which I find incredible and staggering from a Labour Party Minister. Some of her comments were reminiscent of the Progressive Democrats and could easily have been made by Margaret Thatcher.

She indicated that by paying a basic social welfare rate of €188 on top of rent supplement we are giving too much because people do not have an incentive to go to work. That argument ignores a number of points. People need rent supplement support because they cannot afford rent in the private sector out of their basic social welfare rate of €188 per week. They also need rent supplement because they are not being provided with social housing. The entire policy has changed and we are in a limbo because the previous social housing logic which involved local authorities building housing has been replaced by rent supplement, the rental accommodation scheme and long-term leasing. I agree with previous speakers that this is not a short-term measure but part of a policy shift which we must accept. The Minister of State's comments were incredible. Is she saying that she believes we are paying people too much and should cut their rent supplement or social welfare benefits? The solution to the problem identified by the Minister of State is that we ensure that people in low-income employment are given some level of support in terms of paying their rent and do not have all of their benefits withdrawn. Many of the people with whom I deal are in low-paid jobs and do not receive any rent supplement. One anomaly in the system is the inclusion of lone parent's maintenance payments as income, which results in many of them falling outside the threshold for rent supplement and having to meet the full cost of rent. These are important and serious issues.

The Minister of State has also misrepresented what we are calling for. This is very unhelpful. The motion asks that the Government request the Department to provide support, information and assistance to tenants currently availing of rent supplement who will be required to renegotiate rents with landlords. It also calls on the Government to ensure the State negotiates directly with landlords on the rates at which rent supplement is paid in order to reduce expenditure on rent supplement. We are asking first that the Department engage with landlord representative groups to obtain agreement on rent caps across the country and, second, that local authorities be the nominated bodies to engage with landlords. We should not be putting vulnerable people in the position of having to negotiate with landlords. We are all aware that many people, because they want to live in a particular area where, perhaps, their children attend school or because landlords will not reduce their rents, are paying cash under the table to landlords on top of what is being provided by the State in terms of rent supplement. It is essentially a social welfare cut if people are using their benefits to top up rent payments to landlords.

The motion also calls on the Government to put in place a scheme whereby rent supplement is paid directly to landlords rather than tenants, that as much use as possible be made of accommodation held by NAMA and that HEOs be directed to take all reasonable steps necessary to ensure that tenants have appropriate accommodation. Nowhere in the motion is it stated that we are not in favour of obtaining value for money. Nowhere in that motion or in Senator Ó Clochartaigh's contribution is it stated that we cannot achieve savings in this area. Of course, we can. Nowhere in the motion is it stated that we want to increase the incomes of pay to rent landlords or that we want to increase rents. That is not stated in the motion. We are calling for supports for people who are being forced to renegotiate rents with landlords.

It is hoped, despite what the Minister, Deputy Bruton, had to say that the Minister of State, Deputy O'Sullivan, will take on board the very constructive proposals contained in our motion. We believe the situation will be improved if our proposals are taken on board and if new rates can, by way of negotiation with landlord representative groups, be agreed and responsibility for negotiations, in terms of rent reductions, transferred to the local authorities. We cannot support the new scheme which is being rolled out because we do not know enough about it. The scheme being piloted may be a good scheme but there is a need for Government to brief Oireachtas Members on it. We have trawled through the Internet and contacted the Department about it but have been unable to get information which would enable us to make a proper judgment.