Fiach MacConghail (Independent)

To paraphrase Phillip McMahon, who wrote "Alice in Funderland", we are all in the gutter but some of us are looking up at the Spar.

At the outset, the Minister should be under no illusion but that all Members are here to support him without question. However, what is vital in our community, of which the Minister is a part both as a Minister and in respect of his role and the work he has done in Listowel, is that a good and vibrant debate is really important. Lots of disagreement is important and he should not feel discomfort in any way, because it is better to have such a debate in public. This is the problem that has been encountered heretofore.

I assure the Minister that under no circumstances am I impinging on, or impugning, the reputation, skill or expertise of the Minister's officials. As for Niall Ó Donnchú, assistant secretary of the Department, who is sitting behind the Minister, and all his officials, I know them, have worked with them and went shoulder to shoulder with them through many wars. I acknowledge publicly that Members on this side - certainly the Independent group of Senators - are not criticising the civil servants. The Minister must be made aware of that.