David Norris (Independent)

The Minister of State is being helpful. When he states there is nothing radical or no new departure, I acknowledge his point. However, he has implied we should follow defective models instead of correcting the mistakes that have been made clear in the models for other international organisations.

Senator Thomas Byrne has stated there is immunity in the Oireachtas. It is partial immunity. On committees, for example, it extends only partially. Questions have been asked about this. I remember when Members of the Oireachtas were held before the courts for various reasons when they tried to test this aspect. Included among them was a distinguished member of the Minister of State's party.

The difference is that we are elected. For that reason, there is privilege to allow freedom of discussion, but that discussion is reported in the newspapers and it is open. We are immune from libel proceedings, but we are not immune from reportage; that is the difference, even though we are elected. Therefore, the argument is false.

What worries me very much - I am sure it was just a mistake of judgment or expression - is Senator Michael D'Arcy challenging the right of a citizen to go to the Supreme Court. That is lamentable.