Michael D'Arcy (Fine Gael)

It has been pointed out that we do not have money. That is incorrect as we have €33 billion in revenue from taxation every year. However, we also have obligations, of which the payment into the ESM is one. To whom do we owe our first obligation? Is it State employees and those who have retired from public service? Should we pay their pay and pensions before we make social welfare payments? People on social welfare are given money from the State based on the decisions of the Oireachtas and the social conscience of its Members. Of the €33 billion the State receives in revenue, €19 billion is allocated towards the salaries of those who work in the public service, with a further €21 billion spent on social welfare payments. The very people to whom Senator Norris and Sinn Féin Senators refer are those who would be most affected were we to fail to pass this legislation.

Explaining the position to an older person who receives a pension, I stated that I did not want to have to explain the reason the Government and Oireachtas would be required to cut expenditure by €10 billion, €12 billion or €14 billion in one year. Irrespective of the ultimate figure, the result would be the impoverishment of the very people the Senators opposite believe they are protecting. I do not believe they believe their own arguments.