David Norris (Independent)

I will try to be brief by way of a series of bullet points.

The Minister of State is persuasive, but I remember his former colleague from Fianna Fáil, the late Deputy Brian Lenihan, who was an old friend of mine, sitting in the Minister's seat and being equally persuasive and brilliant. I disagreed with him because I had analysed his language and want to do the same with the Minister of State. The words the Minister of State is using, "confidence", "game" and "reputation", tell me that perhaps the debate should be moved from this Chamber because we are dealing with politics, not substantial ideas. What we need is a radical reappraisal of the system in which we put the welfare of the people first. One needs to start by looking at the definition of money which has moved from being attached to reality. It is now merely a symbolic representation of energy. It is obscene that multi-billionaire bondholders are paid off. Yesterday I met a woman outside Leinster House who told me she had not eaten for two days. She is by no means unique. That is the impact of these policies and the refusal to take a radical view.

I accept the Minister of State's position that we cannot do it on our own. However, we need to spark a debate. So what if it is intellectual and academic? What are the universities doing? Why are they not tackling these issues? Why are we, at a political level, not taking on the bond markets? Even Sinn Féin wants to go back to them. I would like to abolish them. We are bond slaves or bondsmen. The markets are not serving the interests of the people.

The Government side has stated the markets are investing in Germany because they approve of its Government. That is rubbish, absolute tripe. They are doing so because they know Germany can pay them back and because they will get money out it. They know we cannot pay. In section 2 we are promising we will put in €11 billion, money we do not have because we are bust. The reason I do not like this and the reason I have been voting against it is I like the truth. I do not like fantasy.