Michael D'Arcy (Fine Gael)

Like other speakers I wish to comment briefly on our position and the national debt in particular. I have read the record of the discussion in the select committee, and the amount of discussion on irrelevant portions of this Bill was astonishing. That is annoying as we must stay with the point or else we will be here for days, weeks and months. The great theories being espoused amazed me.

The Minister of State made the point yesterday that the banking portion on the sovereign debt is less than 25%. We would all prefer if it was not there and we hope that at some stage it may be accounted for somewhere else. For two years the deficit we run will be the equivalent of what Anglo Irish Bank cost us. We can, rightly, go nuts about that. We are obliged to get our deficit under control and we will do so. When that happens, we can go in a different direction, which will make it easier. Nevertheless, it is not easy at this time. The markets are very clear, as they want countries to go in Germany's direction rather than that followed by the peripheral countries. Money is being offered to Germany and France at knock-down rates, so it costs some people to save money. At the same time, peripheral countries are being charged 6% or 7% in interest. The markets are clear on the way they want governments to go.

A national debt is not repaid. The national debt in the UK started with a war between Britain and France in the 1600s and it has not been repaid fully since. It is constantly turned over. A country keeps it under control by making repayments so when a bond or other amount becomes due, it can be paid. This is done by the markets allocating funding in a process that has existed for hundreds of years. I listened to a presentation which noted that Bolshevik Russia reneged on its national debt after the revolution in the early part of the 20th century, and when the country went back to the markets in the 1990s, it repaid an amount for the moneys reneged on. That is how long debts stand and how the structures operate.

We will probably never fully repay our national debt, which may increase to more than €200 billion and 118% of GDP, but we must be able to keep track of it and repay the interest as it becomes due. As society expands and develops, we must keep up. Otherwise, if we repaid it in full we would all be looking out over half-doors in thatched homes and going to the crossroads for a set dance. This is the advancement of society.

I look forward to the debate we will have on this. I put some issues to the Minister of State yesterday which I am sure we will touch on again today.