David Norris (Independent)

I welcome the Minister of State to the House. I remember when he was an active participant in this House and a valuable contribute and I congratulate him on his appointment to such a significant post.

As he might imagine, I have certain questions about this entire arrangement. I sympathise with him and the gradualist position of the Government, in holding its nerve and incrementally improving the position of Ireland. It is morally repugnant that Ireland, which has obeyed all the rules, met every request made of it and conformed to everything demanded, still is consistently punished.

What has happening here in Europe is analogous to what happened in the Famine, where there was a doctrinaire rigid economic theory imposed from a central authority on the satellite areas of a large and powerful political entity. Germany is imposing such an arrangement on us against the wishes of the people.

The difficulty is that one will always get into a mess, if one starts with the establishment. Every decent Government should start with the welfare of the people, assess the impact of measures taken to protect the welfare of the people on the system and adjust the system accordingly. That is particularly true when we have got to the sophisticated stage in the 21st century where money is notional. That is quite clear from the operations of the ratings agencies.

I know not how the ratings agencies have the cheek to continue operating because they helped precipitate this entire crisis. They put the skids under the world economy and it is still apparently tolerable that they are rating. It is appalling that they derated 19 banks in Spain yesterday. I reiterate my call here for an international financial court to try individuals, companies and groups for economic crimes against humanity because companies such as Goldman Sachs and the ratings agencies have certainly done so.

I understand what the Minister of State means, and it is part of this gradualist approach. I hope it works but I do not believe it will. Of course, he is correct in stating, "There are increasing calls for the ESM's tools to be extended to allow the ESM directly recapitalise systemically important financial institutions", and that the sovereign people should be absolved.

However, there are aspects of the treaty itself that are completely laughable. The opening, "THE CONTRACTING PARTIES, the Kingdom of Belgium, the Federal Republic of Germany, the Republic of Estonia, Ireland, the Hellenic Republic, the Kingdom of Spain, the French Republic, the Italian Republic, the Republic of Cyprus, ...", is a list of countries, half of which are bust. We are contributing, and we have no money. We are agreeing to put €11 billion in.

I recall asking in this House during one of the first bailout situations what our ultimate exposure could be and being told it was €400 billion. When I asked what was our gross national product, they did not know. The Department officials had to go out and make a telephone call to find it was €200 billion. I stated even I could see it amounted to everything we would have for the next two years and asked what would happen if they called in the chips. There was no answer, except that it could not happen. It did happen.

That is why I say there is no vision. There is no leadership in Europe. We are still tinkering with the system. The fiscal treaty requires not 12 of the 25 European Union members, but 12 of the 17 euro area members. The Minister of State has not made that mistake but many other commentators, including members of the Government, have made that mistake publicly. The entering into force of the ESM treaty requires, as the Minister of State stated up-front, ratification by those contributing 90%. That means the eight largest economies in Europe can trigger it. It requires not 12 but eight, which represents half the eurozone and one third of European Union membership. It is a minority controlling matters.

I would like a little openness every so often in the middle of all the financial gobbledygook that is contained in this Bill. I like things that are accessible and which people can understand. I can understand very well what is being done on page 52 of the Bill and have tabled a series of amendments to address this. Article 32.3 of the treaty states, "The ESM, its property, funding and assets, wherever located and by whomsoever held, shall enjoy immunity from every form of judicial process". This is an horrendous provision. Do people realise that the ESM is not subject to the law?

Article 32.4 states, "The property, funding and assets of the ESM shall, wherever located and by whomsoever held, be immune from search, requisition, confiscation, expropriation or any other form of seizure, taking or foreclosure by executive, judicial, administrative or legislative action." Where does this leave us? I would describe this as a dictatorship.

Article 32.5 reads, "The archives of the ESM and all documents belonging to the ESM or held by it, shall be inviolable." Article 32.6 reads, "The premises of the ESM shall be inviolable." Where does this stop? It means there is absolutely no accountability in this body into which we will shove as much as €8.5 billion. The first tranche will be more than €1 billion and this week we will squirt away another €1.5 billion when we pay the bondholders. This is madness. There is no radical thought evident throughout Europe and I wish to God there was.

I thank the Leas-Chathaoirleach for his indulgence. We are witnessing the death throes of capitalism, a kind of slow motion mortality, and I wish they would hurry up and get on with it. Let capitalism die and get off the stage in order that we can get back to human values.