Ned O'Sullivan (Fianna Fail)

They are like the Romans of old sulking in their tents when they should be here participating in what is an important issue for our Constitution and our country.

The Taoiseach made a serious error of judgment in the heat of the pre-election debate. As Seán Lemass said, all election promises are null and void. The Taoiseach should be man enough to admit he was wrong. We should talk about reform, but this knee-jerk reaction of abolishing the Seanad is not going down well with the people. I predict that if the Taoiseach, Fine Gael and Labour continue on this road they will get a resounding answer from the people because people know their history, and they want their democracy. As we speak, the Minister, Deputy Phil Hogan, is planning the abolition of the oldest tier of public representation in this country, namely, our town councils. He has taken the scalpel to county councils. He is amalgamating some and intends to break up others. Is this Government anti-democracy? We have fewer local units of democracy than any country in Europe. We have a third of what they have in France.

I compliment the Independent Members, many of whom were appointed by the Taoiseach and would have a sense of loyalty to him in that regard, on their courage but the idea that we would have a constitutional conference to examine the Constitution and exclude from its business the most central item, namely, the proposed abolition of the Seanad, which affects 68 Articles of the Constitution, is Alice in Wonderland stuff. It is laughable.

A series of Ministers have attended the debate, and they are all welcome. Apparently, their lips are sealed also. They appear to be here only in a listening mode. We will not get the wisdom of their views or the view in Cabinet. That is silly. Obviously, words do not mean what the Government says they mean.

More democracy, not less democracy, is what this country wants. The Seanad has a proud tradition. I am proud to say a kinswoman of mine, Kit Ahern, served here for many years. During that period she provided a constituency service in Kerry North while attempting to win a Dáil seat, which ultimately she did. The service she gave to the people would not have been possible had it not been for the Seanad. The idea that the Seanad is a nursery for upcoming people is not a bad thing. Some of our best leaders, including former taoisigh, started their political career in the Seanad-----