Mary Ann O'Brien (Independent)

Was it a fleeting moment in Citywest? When the Taoiseach nominated me to this position, I told him I had heard him say that he intended to abolish the Seanad. He said he had that in his mind. I do not think for a moment that the Taoiseach, being the man I know he is, would not sit down and discuss the wheres, the whats and the whys. We are running a giant company here. Things have changed significantly since the Taoiseach was elected. It has struck me in recent days, as I have been reading and talking to my colleagues, that we are still beset by challenges and worries. Things have not remained the same since the day the Taoiseach was elected and the evening in Citywest when he said that. Reform is on the table. There is reform that might have been good in this document but a lot more reform is needed now.

Let us say that if there was a "Yes" and a "No" vote again regarding the abolition of the Seanad then like my colleague, Senator Fiach Mac Conghail, I would vote for its abolition. We could talk about reform of the Seanad if it was done in a way that we could debate it. We can put the subject that is up for debate today on the list of topics for debate at the constitutional convention. It must be put on the constitutional convention's list to be debated, thought about and reported upon and then come back here. As one of the speakers said earlier, reform is not just for us Senators to debate. I favour reform but it is not right that we must wait until 2013, the end of the next year. There are "Yes" and "No" views but there is no time for us to have a meaningful dialogue with our people. A new Seanad should embrace experience and expertise that represents the professions such as the legal, the business, the health, the sports, the arts, the agriculture, the education, the candlestick maker, the toy maker, the emigrants, all of society and some Northern Ireland people.

Today I heard some eloquent speakers here say that we have known, over the years, what has happened in the House and Senator MacSharry spoke very eloquently and strongly. Let us imagine for a moment that 20 years have elapsed and there is somebody in the Dáil whom no one like and who has complete power but there is no Seanad. What then? What if there are no checks and balances? We must keep the Seanad going but we live in a different world. We live in a very frightening Europe and Ireland is under the troika at the moment. New Zealand is the only democratic country that I can think of that got rid of its Seanad. The other day I spoke to Sir Michael Fay in New Zealand and he said that getting rid of its Seanad was the worst thing that they had ever done in his country. We cannot stand here and not put this matter on the agenda for the constitution convention.

I do not want to undermine the importance of the duration of a presidential term of office by insisting on a reduction of the seven year term. That is a no-brainer. It should be five years-----