Feargal Quinn (Independent)

I do not understand the thinking behind having a constitutional convention but excluding from that convention a discussion on the Seanad, at a time when there is a proposal that the Seanad be abolished. If the Seanad is abolished there will be at least 70 changes to the Constitution. How can there be a constitutional convention and shortly afterwards a change be made that was not discussed at that convention? I spoke of 70 changes to the Constitution but I am told there may be as many as 93. That just does not seem to make sense. What we are debating today is whether the discussion about the Seanad should be included in the constitutional convention. It does not make one iota of sense to consider having that convention, concerning the taking place of which there is clearly a great deal of agreement, while excluding from it a measure that will bring about so many changes. There have been many discussions about the abolition of the Seanad, and about from where this move came. It appears it may have come as a whim, or as something in which the potential Taoiseach of the day declared he believed. That is worthy of discussion but the place to have that discussion is at the constitutional convention.

We have talked today about some of the benefits of having a second House. It is essential that we have one. The bicameral system exists in a very large number of countries around the world although many smaller countries do not have it. Senator Norris has been in the House for 25 years; I am in my 20th year here. I look back and think of some of the occasions I can remember where this House played a very large part. Let me offer just two instances I remember. I remember the George Mitchell scholarship Bill going through the Dáil. It was a very short and easy Bill that honoured the George Mitchell scholars who were to come here from the United States to study peace in Ireland or, indeed, any subject here. The Bill that went through the Dáil referred to studying in this "State", meaning the Twenty-six Counties. That was noticed in the Seanad the following day and drawn to the Minister's attention. He stated he had advice that the wording had to take that form. Imagine coming to study peace in Ireland and not being allowed to study north of the Border. It just did not make sense. It was argued in the Seanad that this should not take place and that the scholarship should apply to study in all of Ireland. The Minister went away, thought it over and accepted the amendment made in this House. The Bill was changed and returned to the Dáil. That seems such a simple item but if we had had only one House when this matter was discussed the original wording would have passed.

I thank the Minister of State, Deputy McGinley, for staying, at least for the time he did. He was very welcome.